Opinions on Down bag manufacturers

[Jasonst]

I have been hunting around for info on cold weather down sleeping bag manufacturers. I stumbled across the normal Marmot, Mountain Hardwear brands but I also noticed brands such as Feathered friends and Western mountaineering. Does anyone have any experience with the last two brands? They are quite $$ but worth the money?

 

[Warren]

I'm a WM bag owner. Very happy with them. I just recently had the chance to compare a Marmot -20 bag side by side with a WM -10 Puma. My observation: WM is much more conservative on the temperature ratings.

A point was made on a previous bag thread that by going for a premium brand you're spending say 40% more for 20% more quality (those numbers are for example only and do not have any empirical basis).

Feathered Friends will custom make a bag for you that may be well worth the extra $.

 

[sli74]

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my WM bags . . . did I say that I love my WM bags

I am keeping 1 synthetic bag around for those wet weather backpacking trips but I am selling my other synthetic bags and going with WM bags . . .

I carried a WM Highlite on the Long Trail when I thru-hiked it and usually I get VERY cold when I sleep but even at 38 degrees, the Highlite kept me toasty warm and that is saying a LOT . . .

LOVE WESTERN MOUNTAINEERING !!!

sli74

 

[sli74]

www.westernmountaineering.com

try that and click on products and pricelist for each respectively . . .

sli74

 

[Mark_151]

I had a WM Puma Super DL -20F bag. Exceptional except for a small zipper problem which was rectified. The temp rating was WAY sandbagged. Anything more than about -5F and the bag was pretty uncomfortable. It was THE carrot on a stick for getting to the bivy of many winter overnights.

Mark

 

[Jasonst]

I had a WM Puma Super DL -20F bag. Exceptional except for a small zipper problem which was rectified. The temp rating was WAY sandbagged. Anything more than about -5F and the bag was pretty uncomfortable. It was THE carrot on a stick for getting to the bivy of many winter overnights.

Mark

Not clear on your reply. Was it too hot beyond -5 or too cold?

 

[bobmak]

I have a Feathered Friends Ptarmigan with extra fill rated to -25. I have been down to -20 and been toasty, and I am amazed that when this thing is in a compression sack it is about 12 x 18 inches and is under 4 pounds. And the customer service is tops. At the time when I bought it the bag sold for around $500 with a dry loft shell & shipping; it was about $100 more than comparable mainstream bags. I am not sure what they go for now. I also have a -20 EMS down bag. While the EMS bag was a bargain at the price (something like $250 new when I bought it), there is no comparison between it and the FF bag.

 

[Jay H]

Alas, I only have a Western Mountaineering Iroquois (Now the hilite from what I'm told +38°F) but I love it too, like others have said, it's conservative in its rating and has served me well in backpacking and bicycle touring.

Love to get a colder rated one but I keep pushing it off and I like to get bargains. I got the Iroquois for like $160 on clearence sometime last year.

Jay

 

[Waumbek]

I bought a WM Antelope maybe 15 years ago. They were a -10 or -20* bag then, not a +5, as they are now. It was pricey. But it has been a great investment.

 

[Paul_Bear]

I've had a Feathered Friends -25 bag for about 13 years. It's light and stuffs quite small. At the time I shopped it against Marmot and Western Mountaineering and I think FF was a bit less $$ (although all of these are certainly pricey).

These days I only use it 2-4 nights a winter, so I expect this to last my lifetime.

Certainly very high quality as well as a high price. When I got mine, I think it took a month or so for the bag to arrive so that's one question I'd ask.

 

[dave.m]

Law Of Dimini$hing Return$

A bit of a dissenting view....

IMO, this is an area where the law of dimishing returns definitely kicks in. The top tier bags of Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends (and a close 3rd place to Marmot) have long been recognized as the lightest and warmest bags. So, for a given warmth, you are paying dollar$ to $ave on ounce$.

IMO, the second tier bags come from TNF, LLBean and Eastern Mountain Sports. I find their products to be more or less equivalant with a definite pref for EMS and TNF.

I generally find REI's stuff to be a step down in terms of design.

Where is the best value found? That is an entirely personal decision. If you have the dollar$ to $pend and you want the be$t, go for the top tier stuff. For 90% of the people I know who will really use bags in the woods, I point them to TNF and EMS.

What is best? Got to define "best".

 

[Jasonst]

A bit of a dissenting view....

IMO, this is an area where the law of dimishing returns definitely kicks in. The top tier bags of Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends (and a close 3rd place to Marmot) have long been recognized as the lightest and warmest bags. So, for a given warmth, you are paying dollar$ to $ave on ounce$.

IMO, the second tier bags come from TNF, LLBean and Eastern Mountain Sports. I find their products to be more or less equivalant with a definite pref for EMS and TNF.

I generally find REI's stuff to be a step down in terms of design.

Where is the best value found? That is an entirely personal decision. If you have the dollar$ to $pend and you want the be$t, go for the top tier stuff. For 90% of the people I know who will really use bags in the woods, I point them to TNF and EMS.

What is best? Got to define "best".

I agree that these companies definitely muddy the waters when selecting a bag. Ems makes a "mountain light -20" that sells normal retail for $299. If that -20 actually equals a -10 in true temps, that's still a huge savings. I suppose a true test drive of the gear would probably be in order, but I don't know if you can test drive one of the WM or FF bags.

 

[Rick]

I am on board with Dave.M.
I have a 1983 EMS Robson Long -30 down bag and it is still smoking. Yes it is a little heavier, as back then it was probably 550 fill, but it is still an awesome bag. I picked up a new EMS -5 down bag around 5 years ago for around $90 (W/ Employee Disc & season closeout) and it is again, hands down an awesome bag for the money.
FWIW, these seem like they might be a good deal on Ebay
REI Down Bags & Bivys

 

[daxs]

I just bought some gear from Feathered Friends so I can't say yet how well the jacket and bag will perform. They make most of the gear to order so you need several weeks of lead time to get your stuff. The personnel spent a great deal of time on the phone with me 45+ minutes to make sure I was ordering a bag and jacket that would best suit my needs. The nice thing about the jacket was that I was able to order a different sleeve size than "body" size. Since I have short arms I found this option very appealing. All my jackets have arms that are too long. It cost me 15 bucks extra for the custom jacket. It stuffs down to a very small size. Hopefully I will be as impressed with performance. They have several different types of fabric to choose from and you can upgrade to 800 fill down. If you're into fashion you can also pick the color of your fabric

 

[ajtiv]

I bought a Peregrine -25 bag from Feathered Friends.
I was at the store in Seattle this past summer and was impressed with their quality. the stitching is very well done great loft and epic fabric same as Black diamond single wall tents.Vapor barrier tunnel at the bottom of the hood great detail. I bought the upgrade to 800 fill and 4 additional oz. to get to a -30 rating I think I will be good for twenty years or more with this one.
Now I have to wait for cold weather to try it out probably not until next year.
It was expensive and as far as diminishing returns a bag that last 20+ years I think is a good investment not reckless spending IMO
Al

 

[John S]

Lot’s of good advice here, Jasonst. One approach I found useful was to learn everything I could about the bags on the manufacturers’ web sites and then actually get my hands on them in area stores. IME in N. Conway and All Outdoors in Manchester usually have some WM in stock. Try McKenzie Gear in Lincoln for FF.

Temperature ratings likely vary by manufacturer and certainly by user but if you spend some time comparing loft, interior dimensions and fill weights, you should at least gain some comfort regarding relative values. Look also at how quickly and fully the bags loft up after compression, as well as the features and dimensions. You’ll notice that some of the lightest bags are also the smallest or have short zippers, features that may or may not be suitable for you.

FWIW, I have a +35 Caribou and a +5 Antelope from WM and am very happy with both.

 

[ChrisB]

Life of a Down Bag Question

Hi all,

I have heard that down has a finite life cycle. For example, after so many years of use, stuffings and unstuffings, washings, etc. a down bag will lose much of its ability to loft.

Given that, is a really expensive bag (F Friends or WM) bought for the long haul a good investment?

Or is it smarter to go with a less expensive bag (MH, EMS) and plan on replacing it in 5 to 10 years with a newer model?

What do you think?

cb

 

[afka_bob]

For the most part, it seems people here like Western Mountaineering bags, just like me.

I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't like a WM or FF bag -- what's not to like?

I like fine Italian sports cars, too, but I mostly drive Chevys.

And, at least in this case, to spend a bit of money is clearly worth it.

Yup. The "bit" I've spent on my TNF and EMS bags allowed me to buy two that better cover a wider range of conditions (4 seasons) than any one 3-season Ferrari bag would, and, while each is ounces heavier than the fine Italian performance sleeping bags in their respective categories, the ability to carry a bag suited to the season has resulted in much greater comfort and less average weight carried through hikes in winter, spring, summer, and fall.

In the summer, I carry a little down bag that stuffs smaller than a loaf of bread. In the winter, the (reasonably) heavier, loftier, and bulkier bag keeps me warm to about 10 below. In the spring and fall, I look closely at the forecast and decide what I can get away with (lighter) or what I must be prepared for (heavier).

I really don't want to:

1) be out in anything much colder than 10 below.
2) carry anything heavier than I have to in the summer (or mild spring/fall weather)
3) pay for more than I'll generally use
4) get dirty and subsequently agonize over cleaning (and possibly destroying the loft of) $300-$500+ worth of down and gossamer baffles (I don't want to destroy my cheaper down bags, either, but I don't agonize quite so much over the risk of cleaning them every few of years).

If it does get colder than that, I have a down jacket and fleece tops and bottoms, hat, down booties (that I'm already wearing or carrying, so they don't add anything to my pack weight) and I wear them to bed. Throw in a hot water bottle (already carrying a water bottle and stove) and I figure I'm toasty for about half the price of the big boys.

And, really, I'm doing the vast majority of my hiking and camping in the WMNF, not the Himalyas, or even the Rockies. I don't begrudge anyone a fine WM or FF superbag, I just choose to spend my money on things that are more immediately useful to me.

Of course, all that being said, if there weren't for kids' college funds, mortgages, etc., would I go ahead and get the Ferrari bag?

No, I'd rather have the Ferrari.

And there you have it.

PS to ChrisB: It has been my experience that, with proper care, any good to great down bag should last much longer than 8-10 years at full loft.

 

[rodland]

Down Bags

I own both WM and Feathered Friends bags. They are both excellent manufacturers. After spending years of backpacking with many other people who do not have such high quality sleeping bags and who have also spent many cold nights shivering, I can't be too strong in my recommendation to spend the extra money to get a quality bag.

Both manufacters have a wide range of products to suit peoples needs.

 

[bobmak]

As stated earlier I have both a -25 FF bag and a -20 EMS bag (1996 or so). Here's what I think is a fair comparison.

The EMS bag is probably about a pound heavier than the FF bag

FF bag definately packs smaller (800 fill down vs. 650 fill)

Stiching and material is a bit nicer on the FF bag

The FF bag is by far the warmer of the 2. Temperature ratings are a matter of personal preference as much as anything else, so this is purely an opinion. For me, I'd say the FF is rated conservatively at -25; I was toasty at -20. The EMS bag is more of -5 to -10 bag; I could sleep in it at -20, but I'd feel a little chilly. At 0, I'd be comfy.

Price: the EMS bag was around $200 back then; I got it at 20% off which made it a steal. The FF bag was $500+

Was the FF bag worth $500? I think it is. You save weight, sleep warmer, packs smaller, probably will last a little longer. I absolutely love mine.

However, if you don't mind carrying a little more weight in a little more space, and if you sleep warm, then the EMS bag is probably the best deal out there.

Just one humble mans opinion