Sleeping Bag Cover

[JoshandBaron]

Synthetic bags stack really well. They resist compression a bit better than down and aren't as susceptible to moisture related performance loss.

To answer your question about 2 pads, everyone I know who regularly winter camps carries an insulated inflatable and a ccf. An R4 only gets you into the teens.

 

[jfb]

Might be creating drift in my own thread but is it necessary to have two pads in Winter? If you have a good insulated inflatable does the closed cell pad matter?

Some people worry that an inflatable pad might spring a leak.

 

[DayTrip]

Synthetic bags stack really well. They resist compression a bit better than down and aren't as susceptible to moisture related performance loss.

To answer your question about 2 pads, everyone I know who regularly winter camps carries an insulated inflatable and a ccf. An R4 only gets you into the teens.

OK. Thanks for the info.

 

[Brambor]

Lots of questions sprung in this thread. Sorry if I missed some.

Overbag to prevent condensation. I think the idea is to use VBL liner inside the bag. I have one and I use it in extreme cold situations. It adds warmth and it blocks moisture that comes from your body over the course of the night. Your body's moisture is usually bigger contributor for wetting out a sleeping bag over consecutive nights. My VBL liner is not extra long ... i.e. I only have it up to my chest. It has fuzzy fabric on the inside which helps to feel comfy. I would only use an overbag if I used a VBL liner as an overbag further traps the moisture that comes from your body and contributes to dampening your insulation. I suppose this only applies if you use down.

Stripping to sleeping clothes - yes, most of the time. When I get to camp I stay in my current clothes while I prepare the sleeping quarters, make food, gather wood. This low exertion activity maintains my body warmth and helps drying out the damp/sweaty hiking clothes. In the meantime I also make a hot water bottle and slip it into the sleeping bag. Then I use mini pad that I use for sitting (foam pad) and I stand on it and strip completely and put on my sleeping clothes - sleeping clothes are usually my second set of insulation layer that I carry with me in case of falling into water etc... - then I slip into my sleeping bag which is now toasty warm from the hot water bottle. Is stripping and dressing in sub zero temperatures cold? YES. Do I sometimes shake from the cold during the undressing and ressing ? YES But I got a warm sleeping bag waiting for me.

I do put some of my wet clothes between my pads. It works , somewhat, but more importantly it's probably the best place to stuff it anyway ... better than letting it freeze stiff.

Multiple pads? YES. At least 2. Sometimes 3 is better. Foam on the bottom, insulated inflatable on top and foam on top - a sandwich.

 

[dave.m]

1) I use a bag cover similar to the Campmor cover that has been posted. Mine is a very old TNF Versatech Bivy with a waterproof bottom layer and VersaTech top layer. VersaTech is a tightly woven fabric like Pertex that is water resistant and very breathable. I use this to sleep directly on the snow with NO ground cloth underneath. I keep my pad(s) inside of the bag and the purpose I use it for is to keep snow from getting between my pad and sleeping bag (and thus melting). I don't rely on it for additional warmth.

2) I use a Stephenson Warmlite VB shirt to sleep in. I wear it OVER a thin polyester zip t-neck and UNDER my fleece sweater. I change into the VB shirt when I arrive in camp and am still warm and before I start to cool down. The turns my body core into a dry heat source instead of a wet heat source and this allows me to force dry my fleece while doing camp set up. This way, my fleece sweater is drier when I go to bed and thus not ending up in my sleeping bag. I pay a small price in the morning when I strip off my parka and fleece sweater to remove the VB shirt, but I do this last minute before heading out so I warm up pretty fast again upon hiking/skiing.

2a) I've played with both VB bag liners (too much fuss and you need to sleep more stripped down which sucks at 2am when I need to pee) and VB pants (cheap rain pants - not enough value for the extra weight). I find the VB shirt worth it.

2b) I am a solid VB sock fan (bagel bags) as they keep my boots from freezing over night. VB socks during the day. VB shirt at night.

 

[DayTrip]

Very detailed answers guys. Thanks.

On the vapor barrier sleeping bag liners: do they really make the bag that much warmer? I have a hard time imagining myself getting that warm on a Winter night. The liner I posted a link too only weighs 4.5 ounces. If the liner provided that kind of warmth it would be worth it versus stacking a second sleeping bag or using an over bag, both of which are a lot heavier than the liner. I already use a bag liner in the Fall (the more traditional poly type ones) so I'm confident I won't find it too annoying. May have to give this a try.

 

[Brambor]

My VB liner is the same material as Stephenson VBL shirt. I bought the fabric from him and sown a sack.

I'm not saying VB liner is that much warmer...not sure who said that.

 

[DayTrip]

My VB liner is the same material as Stephenson VBL shirt. I bought the fabric from him and sown a sack.

I'm not saying VB liner is that much warmer...not sure who said that.

It wasn't you. Nobody did. I was asking if it really made a difference heat wise, not that someone stated that. I know the regular bag liner I have claims to add 20 deg, to which I would say that is total nonsense. Nowhere near that. I've used vapor barrier socks and also experimented last year with "vapor barrier like" layering on hikes and I personally find it to make a difference. I do not anticipate overnighting in temps lower than 0-5 deg F at the worst so if I can stretch my 20 deg bag down a bit lower for this season it'll be worth it. Lot of good suggestions here to try.

 

[Brambor]

When I was a teenager, the only bag I had was a 30degree bag and I went in the winter anyway. Mostly unsuccessful in stretching it but if I had to do it today I would

a) improve ground insulation with multiple foam pads
b) eliminate draft by sleeping in protected enclosures, non mesh tents, and in bivy sack in the tent
c) if the bag was wide enough I would add thickness to the insulation by stuffing it with my clothes
d) relied on hot Nalgene bottle or two
e) worn vapor barrier clothing, balaclava, hat and gloves
f) used proximity of fire if available

It wasn't you. Nobody did. I was asking if it really made a difference heat wise, not that someone stated that. I know the regular bag liner I have claims to add 20 deg, to which I would say that is total nonsense. Nowhere near that. I've used vapor barrier socks and also experimented last year with "vapor barrier like" layering on hikes and I personally find it to make a difference. I do not anticipate overnighting in temps lower than 0-5 deg F at the worst so if I can stretch my 20 deg bag down a bit lower for this season it'll be worth it. Lot of good suggestions here to try.

 

[Nessmuk]

Think of the very first thing you do upon exiting your sleeping bag in the morning. It may not be what you think. A trick I learned long ago if you are out for more than one night is to grab your bag and squish all that warm moist air out. Then do it again. If you don't then the moisture will just condense inside the insulation as soon as it cools down without your body heat. Doing so will keep you warmer the next night.

 

[DayTrip]

Think of the very first thing you do upon exiting your sleeping bag in the morning. It may not be what you think. A trick I learned long ago if you are out for more than one night is to grab your bag and squish all that warm moist air out. Then do it again. If you don't then the moisture will just condense inside the insulation as soon as it cools down without your body heat. Doing so will keep you warmer the next night.

Good idea. Makes sense.

 

[Brambor]

Good Tip - Thank You.

Think of the very first thing you do upon exiting your sleeping bag in the morning. It may not be what you think. A trick I learned long ago if you are out for more than one night is to grab your bag and squish all that warm moist air out. Then do it again. If you don't then the moisture will just condense inside the insulation as soon as it cools down without your body heat. Doing so will keep you warmer the next night.

 

[jfb]

I do not anticipate overnighting in temps lower than 0-5 deg F at the worst so if I can stretch my 20 deg bag down a bit lower for this season it'll be worth it. Lot of good suggestions here to try.

Something else you could try is renting a bag from IME for a night.

 

[sierra]

Some really detailed tactics and options in the thread. I kept it simple, I used a synthetic bag rated for 30 below. It was hard to stuff and took up a lot of room, but it was warm as hell. I slept in my long underwear, with a light hat sometimes. Never needed the hot bottle, never needed but a basic pad. I consider the sleeping bag one of, if not the most critical piece of winter gear for overnights. I suggest a bag rated for the area your in, in the case of the Whites, 20 below minimum.

 

[DayTrip]

Some really detailed tactics and options in the thread. I kept it simple, I used a synthetic bag rated for 30 below. It was hard to stuff and took up a lot of room, but it was warm as hell. I slept in my long underwear, with a light hat sometimes. Never needed the hot bottle, never needed but a basic pad. I consider the sleeping bag one of, if not the most critical piece of winter gear for overnights. I suggest a bag rated for the area your in, in the case of the Whites, 20 below minimum.

The more I research this the more I find myself going around in a circle. My main goal is cutting the weight of the gear I have so I can actually solo camp in Winter. With that in mind I wanted to get a good down bag for the warmth and the weight. But they are really not in my budget right now with the other things I need. So I've looked at a variety of ideas presented here to cut weight and extend the life of my bag. It seems like they won't be cost effective for the benefit gained or they'll work but won't give me much if any weight savings. Then I started finding pretty good synthetic bags with sub-zero temp ratings that are in the budget. But they're heavy - as heavy as the bag stacking options and other stuff I was trying to do. Which brings me back around to getting a good down bag....which I can't afford right now.

When you say you use a basic pad with the -30 deg bag are you talking inflatable or foam type pad? If I cut out the inflatable pad it would offset the weight of a good synthetic bag, which might make sense for me and fit in the budget.

 

[peakbagger]

I distilled it down years ago, unless I am pulling my winter gear in on a sled and setting up a basecamp to day hike from, i pick my days and do long dayhikes and skip the overnights until conditions are warmer. My -30 F caribou bag is a warm thing but its darn close to 9 pounds and even with a compression sack it eats up half the volume of my winter load monster pack. IMHO To get down to a reasonable pack weight for cold conditions requires compromises in safety ,very expensive gear, or the employ of sherpas.

Many folks like myself have come to the conclusion that we may have the gear and the training but rapidly loose the motivation for winter camping. Much as I like winter daytime conditions, the 15 to 17 hours of darkness in the winter doesn't fully offset the 7 to 8 hours of daylight. Its enjoyable with a group but once the sun goes down the motivation is to get in the bag and stay in it until the morning with one or two very cold bathroom breaks at night or the gymnastics of peeing in bottle. I would much rather go fast and light for a long dayhike starting and ending with a headlamp. By picking my days I dayhiked all the 4Ks in NH except a night at Zealand hut to hit Bond and West Bond.

Realize for some gearing up for winter camping is great escapism as a break from the routine world, they get a buzz off the planning and acquisition of the gear even though its likely that the gear will not get used much. Realistically my Caribou bag probably has less than 15 nights on it in 25 years. I got a great deal on it long ago but expect not many folks would have to space to store it and would have gotten rid of it long ago.

Lot to be said to rent winter gear and decide if you really like it before hopping in whole hog.

 

[DayTrip]

I distilled it down years ago, unless I am pulling my winter gear in on a sled and setting up a basecamp to day hike from, i pick my days and do long dayhikes and skip the overnights until conditions are warmer. My -30 F caribou bag is a warm thing but its darn close to 9 pounds and even with a compression sack it eats up half the volume of my winter load monster pack. IMHO To get down to a reasonable pack weight for cold conditions requires compromises in safety ,very expensive gear, or the employ of sherpas.

Many folks like myself have come to the conclusion that we may have the gear and the training but rapidly loose the motivation for winter camping. Much as I like winter daytime conditions, the 15 to 17 hours of darkness in the winter doesn't fully offset the 7 to 8 hours of daylight. Its enjoyable with a group but once the sun goes down the motivation is to get in the bag and stay in it until the morning with one or two very cold bathroom breaks at night or the gymnastics of peeing in bottle. I would much rather go fast and light for a long dayhike starting and ending with a headlamp. By picking my days I dayhiked all the 4Ks in NH except a night at Zealand hut to hit Bond and West Bond.

Realize for some gearing up for winter camping is great escapism as a break from the routine world, they get a buzz off the planning and acquisition of the gear even though its likely that the gear will not get used much. Realistically my Caribou bag probably has less than 15 nights on it in 25 years. I got a great deal on it long ago but expect not many folks would have to space to store it and would have gotten rid of it long ago.

Lot to be said to rent winter gear and decide if you really like it before hopping in whole hog.

I hear what you're saying. A few years back when I asked a more general question about Winter camping here a lot of people brought up the long nights and lack of interest shortly after trying it. I do have a pulk and could certainly bring in my existing Winter gear and base camp but much like Summer hiking I like going to bed and waking up as close to a summit as possible so I get a sunset view, stars and a sunrise view. I just like it better. I enjoy camping but if I'm still going to be miles and hours from a summit I'd just assume car camp and day hike to that peak rather than go through the aggravation of hauling everything out in the Wilderness. (On occasion I like to do a Summer "river tour" and cruise the valleys when it is super hot but generally I am a summit guy). My objective obviously makes camping more of a challenge and has some compromises but it is worth it to me.

If nothing else VFTT members should keep tabs on my activity and have a wish list ready to go of all the near new equipment I have that I might be interested in selling at the end of the Winter.

 

[skiguy]

Some really detailed tactics and options in the thread. I kept it simple, I used a synthetic bag rated for 30 below. It was hard to stuff and took up a lot of room, but it was warm as hell. I slept in my long underwear, with a light hat sometimes. Never needed the hot bottle, never needed but a basic pad. I consider the sleeping bag one of, if not the most critical piece of winter gear for overnights. I suggest a bag rated for the area your in, in the case of the Whites, 20 below minimum.

I agree. Keep it simple. Some great deals at times for finding a good Winter Bag at IME in N. Conway. A lot of folks buy high end expedition bags for one dream trip and then dump them on consignment afterwards. IMO the fussing with multiple layers to come up with an exact match for a certain level of conditions is just that not worth the fussing. Get at least a minus 20F degree bag and do all your fussing with your clothing layers instead. Much more versatility IMO. Coming up with a layering system using inner and or outer bags can be difficult to mate. All layers have to fit properly to insure no compressing. Also if the layers don't align properly zipping and unzipping can create a big ordeal. By the time you take your basic bag and try to convert it up into something your weight and bulk will more than likely not be far off from what one real good warm bag will be. Get a compression sack that compresses vertically and not horizontally. Ask around. There might already be some one here that has what you are looking for and has had there fill with it and is ready to unload.

 

[Brambor]

I'd say just get a bigger backpack and buy the synthetic bag. You'll solve a lot and won't have to deal with the minor issues of keeping the down dry.

 

[JoshandBaron]

much like Summer hiking I like going to bed and waking up as close to a summit as possible so I get a sunset view, stars and a sunrise view. I just like it better.

Ponds, especially when frozen, afford the same opportunities much of the time. I hate the wind so most of my camping is on the shores of ponds in the winter for the same reasons you like the summits.