truly waterproof GPS

[el-bagr]

I'm in the market for a new GPSr and am curious to hear your thoughts.

Background: I'm coming from an old Garmin III (not III+) GPSr. Due to the battery compartment not being waterproof, and my avocational exposures to saltwater (and being too burnt at the end of a "paddling trip", aka mudflat slog to clean it out), the battery connectors have corroded away. (Low-cost option is for me to rig up alternative power supply, which I have done, but it is as yet unreliable and greatly reduces any remaining waterproofness.)

Optimal objective: Minimize cost while maximizing valued features:

1. Basemap showing roads, waterbodies, point locations. (Thus Garmin GPS60 is out - point basemap only; same for Gekos etc.)
2. Waterproof battery compartment. (Thus eTrex series is out.)
3. Good battery life ( > 8 hours).
4. Good signal.
5. USB interface for transferring waypoints to PC.

Desired uses:
- navigation aid for multiday backcountry paddling (canoe and kayak)
- generate maps of my local singletrack trails
- hiking/bushwhack navigation aid
- skiing data (navigation plus speed/odometer functions)

What I don't care much about:
- altimeter/compass not necessary (but altimeter would be useful)
- microSD capacity

What I can go either way on:
- uploadable maps: knowing me, I'm not likely to pay for any topo data, but the ability to get some topo data on the unit could be good. I'm familiar with raster vs vector issues (and think the vector topos aren't so hot) but am open to the idea of viewing topo data on the GPSr.

I'm looking at the GPSMap60. The Map60CSX is obviously sexy, but too pricy, and has features I don't care about... but it has SirfSTAR III, which seems to be better than normal chipsets. The intermediate Map60CS lacks the SirfSTAR chip, and isn't much cheaper than the Map60CSX anyway...

Ideas?

 

[PeterM]

El-Bagr

My Magellan SporTrak has served me well kayaking, as have 2 ov my buddies - two of us using Topo and 1 using BlueNav. Two have had replacements under warrantee

Let it be known that waterproofing is done as well as technology allows, and is done to drive sales. In other words, a reliable waterproofing isn't going to happen, but they wouldn't sell these things to a large portion of the boaters, kayakers, etc if it were not for the waterproof claim(s). Its better to sell 10k more units and replace 100 or so that fail due to leaking.

Many sea kayakers revert to the double-security of a drybag case. It beats a paperweight.

Now if Santa would bring me a nice color 60csx!

 

[DougPaul]

Background: I'm coming from an old Garmin III (not III+) GPSr. Due to the battery compartment not being waterproof, and my avocational exposures to saltwater (and being too burnt at the end of a "paddling trip", aka mudflat slog to clean it out), the battery connectors have corroded away. (Low-cost option is for me to rig up alternative power supply, which I have done, but it is as yet unreliable and greatly reduces any remaining waterproofness.)

Many if not all of Garmin's outdoor GPSes are rated for 1 meter immersion for up to 30min. However, if you are talking salt water, any metal that gets wet (particularly if there is a voltage on it) is likely to corrode. Don't know of any that are truly (ie dive light) waterproof. I suggest that you consider carrying the GPS in one of the small waterproof plastic boxes.

I have read of people attaching a GPS to the deck of a (white water?) kayak without prolems, but that was probably fresh water.

Optimal objective: Minimize cost while maximizing valued features:

1. Basemap showing roads, waterbodies, point locations. (Thus Garmin GPS60 is out - point basemap only; same for Gekos etc.)

None of the basemaps are very detailed. If you want good maps, you will have to load them into the GPS.

2. Waterproof battery compartment. (Thus eTrex series is out.)

A number of GPSes have electrical contacts which are relatively exposed. These are likely subject to corrosion. The *x series (60CSx, 76CSx, etc) have a memory card in the battery compartment--hopefully these are relatively wateproof. Some silicone grease on the battery compartment seals may help. The waterproof box may be the only real fix.

3. Good battery life ( > 8 hours).

Most, if not all Garmin outdoor GPSes meet this requirment.

4. Good signal.

I have an eTrex Vista, a 60CS, and a 60CSx. All will work out on open water. (The 60CSx is the best under degraded signal conditions.)

5. USB interface for transferring waypoints to PC.

That leaves out the old eTrex line (serial only). Most newer stuff has USB, some have both. (BTW, serial is fine for tracks, waypoints, and routes. It is a bit slow for maps.)

Desired uses:
- navigation aid for multiday backcountry paddling (canoe and kayak)
- generate maps of my local singletrack trails
- hiking/bushwhack navigation aid
- skiing data (navigation plus speed/odometer functions)

Most outdoor models will do these uses. However, the newer ones will do better in degraded signal conditions.

What I don't care much about:
- altimeter/compass not necessary (but altimeter would be useful)
- microSD capacity

Garmin sells the compass and altimeter as a package. ("S" (sensor) in the model name.) MicroSD just allows you to store more maps and tracklog data. If the available memory is enough, fine. I installed a 2GB card in my 60CSx.

What I can go either way on:
- uploadable maps: knowing me, I'm not likely to pay for any topo data, but the ability to get some topo data on the unit could be good. I'm familiar with raster vs vector issues (and think the vector topos aren't so hot) but am open to the idea of viewing topo data on the GPSr.

I greatly perfer uploadable maps. I think they significantly improve the utility and user relibility (ie reduce user mistakes). GPSes only take vector maps (DLGs). While they are not as pretty as raster maps (DRGs), they get the job done. BTW, there are nautical mapsets available and US Topo (100K scale) includes many navaids. There is also a tidetable loadable "mapset".

I'm looking at the GPSMap60. The Map60CSX is obviously sexy, but too pricy, and has features I don't care about... but it has SirfSTAR III, which seems to be better than normal chipsets. The intermediate Map60CS lacks the SirfSTAR chip, and isn't much cheaper than the Map60CSX anyway...

The SIRF Star III chipset performs significantly better than the others in less than optimal conditions, but it is only found on premium GPSes these days. A color display is a significant improvment over the B&W displays--the info is far more readable and the color displays do very well in bright light. (The 60CS is discontinued, but may still be available from some dealers or second hand.)

There is also the issue of orientation--the GPS will work best in its preferred orientation, but the signals will be somewhat degraded if used in a poor orientation. Vertical is best for the 60 and 76 series (vertical quad helix) and horizontal is best for the eTrex series (flat mounted patch antenna). If you are in a boat, you may want to attach the GPS flat on your deck, so a horizontal-preferred unit is best. When hiking or skiing, a shoulder front mounted GPS is generally vertical and a GPS carried in the pack can be in either orientation (stabilize the GPS so it will stay properly oriented).

So the 60Cx, 60CSx, 76Cx, and 76CSx have the SIRF Star III chipset and all prefer vertical orientations. The eTrex {Venture, Legend, Vista} Cx all have the color display and prefer a horizontal orientation. (The eTrex Vista might be ok if carried in a waterproof plastic box when on salt water. Serial, no USB. B&W.)

I much prefer the color display (these are small displays--color is a big help in distinguishing line type eg distinguishing a river from a road or a contour line). Instead of a 60, I would look for a 60C. (Discontinued, perhaps some stores might still have it or second hand.) Or the models described in the previous paragraph should do. In all cases, I would recommend a waterproof plastic box for use on salt water.

Disclaimer: I am not familiar with the details of the non-Garmin outdoor GPS lines, so I cannot make any recommendations about them.

There is lots of info on the features of the Garmin GPSes at http://www.garmin.com. Presumably same for Magellan and Lowrace at their respective websites.

Hope this is of some help.

Doug

Edit: you might also consider carrying the GPS in one of the flexible plastic pouches designed for carrying hand-held radios.

 

[Remix]

Lowrance sells GPS's that are nitrogen packed, but they are optimized for marine use - heavy and power-hungry. I use my old one from 1997 on the kayak

I bought a unit with storage card capabilities just because I wanted to load large areas of US into the unit once, and not waste time fooling around with a computer loading and erasing regions every time I travelled.

But I subsequently found even more advantages...storing summer hiking trip tracks for use in winter, keeping track of even the smallest possible sources of water (especially seeps), storing what look to be nice camping sites. The data basically stays in the GPS without any maintenance, and its always available. Its sort of like a notebook.

 

[DougPaul]

Lowrance sells GPS's that are nitrogen packed, but they are optimized for marine use - heavy and power-hungry. I use my old one from 1997 on the kayak.

That helps to keep water out of the electronics, but one must be able to get into the battery pack which results in less reliable seals and risk if one has to change the batteries in an exposed location. Many GPSes also have electrical connectors on the back. Any metal exposed to sea water is at risk for corrosion. And if there are voltages on the metal or 2 dissimilar metals in contact, the corrosion can proceed much faster.

Doug

 

[arghman]

Lowrance, don't get me started... my iFinder is supposedly IPx7 (1m) but it uses rubber boots which will just not stay put.

 

[CaptCaper]

How have you made out with buying a GPS ?

The 60 series is a nice unit. The battery compartment has a seal on the door.

I'd buy one and dunk it to see if it meets what you'd like to see in a gps.
If it isn't bring it back and return it. I'd buy it at an EMS etc. as there good at returns.

Also if you give it a try the unit has a one year warranty and Garmin will fix it if it leaks at all. That's for sure. They have fixed many units proper for me even when they were out of warranty. Then you can sell it on EBAY for a good price as the 60 series are getting very good prices on them. I sold a used 60CSX for the price of a new one on EBAY.

Good Luck

 

[DougPaul]

The 60 series is a nice unit. The battery compartment has a seal on the door.

The 60 series has electrical connectors on the back with voltages on some of the pins. Sea water will chew them up in time, particularly if one is not religious about cleaning them with fresh water after every use.

An external plastic case protecting the entire GPS is a better solution, IMO.

Doug

 

[CaptCaper]

The 60 series has electrical connectors on the back with voltages on some of the pins. Sea water will chew them up in time, particularly if one is not religious about cleaning them with fresh water after every use.

An external plastic case protecting the entire GPS is a better solution, IMO.

Doug

I see so I assume you had the rubber plugs in for them and dunked it to see if it leaked? And it did? Is that what you are saying?