Unexplained low battery in Canon A570 IS?

[bikehikeskifish]

Has anyone else experienced what would be an unexplained low-battery warning in a Canon A-series P&S? On my trip to Maine in July, the Energizer Lithiums I had in it reported low, on day 3, so I bought the only batteries in town which were alkalines. These very quickly reported low. Bob loaned me a set he had. I stole some out of my flashlight - all reported low rather quickly.

When I got home, I replaced them with another pair of Energizer Lithiums and these are reporting low far sooner than they should. I've gotten an entire winter's worth of photos out of these batteries each of the past two winters.

I'm doubtful the batteries are a fault but I can probably find a tester to confirm that.

Tim

 

[Quietman]

Do you think that the warning light is coming on too soon, or its draining the batteries? How many pictures will it let you take after the warning comes up?
My 570is warning seems to come on early at times, but I use NIMH's and this weekend was able to take 60+ pictures after the warning light came on and it still hasn't "died".

 

[MichaelJ]

My A570IS often will report low battery, even with brand-new batteries in it, for no apparent reason. Just continuing to take pictures seems to be fine, and the battery warning will often go away. I have no explanation, especially if you've seen the problem with alkalines as opposed to NiMH.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

I recently had that problem with my 590 IS. I carry spare alkalines and I put a couple of them in and the camera worked fine.

Back at the shop I tried to recharge the batteries and the charger indicated they were fully charged. The next trip I put those two in my GPS and it worked fine. I used the batteries from my GPS in my camera and they worked fine.

After running the batteries down and recharging them I put them back in my camera and it worked fine and I haven't had the problem since, but I still carry the alkalines just in case. I have no idea what was causing the problem.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

It blinks low battery, and then 1 or 2 shots later it says "change batteries" and refuses to boot up. I'm not sure if it is draining the batteries or if it is incorrectly reading the power level. Some times, it works fine for several shots.

The CHDK software usually says "100%" while the native firmware is the one complaining about the battery level.

At $169 and some 5-6000 photos over 3 years, I'm not gonna cry if I have to replace it. It's been out in extreme cold and heat, knocked around, dropped, etc... I will probably drop Canon technical support a note, but I should probably have a battery tester handy to check the batteries first.

Tim

 

[bikehikeskifish]

More info from Google:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/compacts/a570.htm

The A570 has the same overly sensitive low battery warning as the other A-series Canons I've used. It often will flash the red battery symbol or shut down, even if the batteries are fine or new. Don't believe it; keep trying and keep shooting. My 4-year-old Canon A70 has always done the same thing.

http://www.epinions.com/review/Canon_PowerShot_A570_IS_Digital_Camera_1773B001/content_419818606212

I discovered I could make the warning indicator go away by simply opening and closing the battery compartment cover. After I did this, the camera would operate normally with the same set of batteries. But after 4 or 5 power-cycles, the low-battery indicator would again come on.

I expected the battery compartment cover and I believe the design of the metal electrical contacts is flawed. These acontacts re made of springy metal, but there isn't enough force to press the metal securely against the battery. Even worse, the end of each contact has a metal tab that prevents it from being bent further out to increase the tension. I believe these contacts are the cause of the low-battery warning.

I fixed my camera by inserting tiny pieces of plastic foam (i.e., spongy, like from "foam rubber" pillows) under the metal contacts. I used a small screwdriver to gently bend up each metal strip, and stuffed a small piece of foam under it. This provides enough force to keep the contact securely touching the battery. Since I made this fix, I have power-cycled the camera at least two dozen times, and never once did the low-battery warning come on. In other words, I believe the problem is fixed.

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

There can be a whole host of causes:
* The batteries could be weak. (Use an independent tester, preferably a (real) meter to check this.)
* The battery check in the camera could be bad. (Note: the internal battery checkers are not very reliable and different battery chemistries have different discharge curves--in particular a "low" NiMH could still have a significant amount of energy in it.)
* The contacts could be bad/dirty or a power wire could be damaged.
* The A570 has a "soft" on-off switch, it could be drawing excessive current even when off.
* The A570 could be drawing excessive current when on.
* There could be a flake of metal floating around inside which happens to be shorting something.

Other notes:
* Some of these cameras are not designed for lithium batteries and can be damaged by them. (I think this includes the A570--check the manual.)
* Alkaline batteries do not work well in digital cameras. (Short life.) NiMH and lithium (if allowed) generally last much longer.
* This camera takes AA batteries--the above comments apply to cameras with removable AA batteries.

Doug

 

[MichaelJ]

A little Googling showed a lot of complaints about the A570 having this problem. Some people sent in the camera for service (and guessed about the firmware fixing it), others claim repeated reseating of the batteries using the battery cover (at each replacement) fixes it (likely not the physical reseating, but the repeated application and removal of voltage).

But no matter how you cut it, it seems to be a flaw in the camera, and the #1 recommendation is to just keep taking photos. Unfortunately, you have the second-stage flaw of it outright shutting off after just a few shots. Go with CHDK (the alternate firmware), it seems to not have this issue. There's nothing like a problem like this with an older camera to give a good excuse to try something like that.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

All the owner's manual says officially is:

"This camera uses AA-sized alkaline batteries or Canon AA-sized NiMH batteries (sold separately).
While it is possible to use AA-sized nickel cadmium batteries, performance is unreliable and their use is not recommended."

It does not say "do not use...". We all know that when a recipe says to use "Aunt Jemima brand maple syrup" that is merely because the same company owns both brands..

I tried NiMH batteries for a while but they

a) STINK in the cold
b) have a shelf life of like 3 or 4 days and then are useless (yeah, I know there are ones optimized for shelf life, probably bought the wrong kind, they don't advertise which kind is which on the charger/battery pack.)

KenRockwell suggests that this camera would be happiest with throwaway lithium batteries. I accept that is not officially Canon's view.

I will check/clean the contacts and test the batteries, but the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of the batteries being good.

I read what you read, MJ, and have tried this in the past with some luck. It's definitely getting worse... I am running CHDK already and it says "100%" on the battery but unfortunately the native firmware still shuts the camera down with "change the batteries".

Tim

 

[David Metsky]

Buy new NiMH low discharge batteries. They have a charged shelf life on the order of 1 year, not 3-4 days. And fresh NiMH batteries work fine in winter, in all but the coldest of the cold. I use them for my S3 and they last several 100 shots while skiing all day. You may simply have old or worn out NiMH batteries right now. Sanyo Enloops are an excellent choice for low discharge NiMH.

Lithium batteries are fine for use in this camera, but IMO not needed except in the extreme cold. My guess would be the contacts, as I've had that problem on every digital camera I've owned, regardless of manufacturer. Clean the contacts on both the batteries and the camera (I use either a pencil erasure or a key) and that seems to make the contacts work better.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

The Canon reviews are full of people with the same complaint...

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/suppo.../powershot_a_series/powershot_a570_is#Reviews

The NiMH batteries worked poorly from the start... I have Duracells that I got at Staples...

Either things are dirty or the camera just degrades after 2-3 years, based on the complaints at the above link.

I will try cleaning it though - that can't hurt.

Tim

 

[Quietman]

I find it very interesting that the CHDK meter reads full, but the onboard indicator reads empty. Could this be a firmware issue?

 

[David Metsky]

While there are many complaints, there are far, far more users who haven't had the problem. It was a very popular camera so there are many users out there. I still maintain that it occurs to some degree with all camera models. It may be slightly worse with the A570, but only by degree.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

It's hard to read the updated CHDK battery level when the only thing on the display is "Change batteries" So, it may well be that the firmware code starts out assuming 100% but when it figures out 0% (or nearly so) it's too late to tell me.

I will do some not-in-the-field research on this, followed by some cleaning, and report back.

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

All the owner's manual says officially is:

"This camera uses AA-sized alkaline batteries or Canon AA-sized NiMH batteries (sold separately).
While it is possible to use AA-sized nickel cadmium batteries, performance is unreliable and their use is not recommended."

It does not say "do not use...".

I'm sure that Canon is aware of lithium batteries and most likely would have listed them if they were OK.

A friend found that her A75 ran hot with lithiums. Perhaps the damage is slow. (Heat tends to reduce the life of electronics...)

I tried NiMH batteries for a while but they

a) STINK in the cold
b) have a shelf life of like 3 or 4 days and then are useless (yeah, I know there are ones optimized for shelf life, probably bought the wrong kind, they don't advertise which kind is which on the charger/battery pack.)

NiMH is not as good as lithium (primary), but better than alkaline* in the cold. I've had no problems with my NiMH-powered cameras in the cold (but I haven't tried them below 0F). (Lithium ion rechargeables generally have similar performance in the cold as NiMH.)

* As noted in my previous post, alkaline is a poor choice for digital cameras at any temp.

NiMH batteries have a finite lifetime and can be damaged by improper charging and use. And many places do advertise the types of batteries. See, for instance, http://thomas-distributing.com. Sanyo Eneloop is a good brand of long-shelf-life NiMHs and the Maha MH-C401FS is a well-respected charger. (I have and am happy with both.) I have given more detailed advice on the proper care for NiMHs in previous threads.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Clean the contacts on both the batteries and the camera (I use either a pencil erasure or a key) and that seems to make the contacts work better.

Ink erasers work better than pencil erasers--you may need enough abrasion to break an oxide layer. Very fine emery paper (used sparingly) will work quite well.

You might also want to clean the contacts on the batteries too...

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

* As noted in my previous post, alkaline is a poor choice for digital cameras at any temp.

I'm sure that Canon is aware of this fact as well yet they continue to list them. I'd be interested in a statement like "using lithium batteries will void your warranty and may damage your camera." I haven't found any source, official or otherwise, recommending that we not use lithiums in this camera.

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

* As noted in my previous post, alkaline is a poor choice for digital cameras at any temp.

I'm sure that Canon is aware of this fact as well yet they continue to list them. I'd be interested in a statement like "using lithium batteries will void your warranty and may damage your camera." I haven't found any source, official or otherwise, recommending that we not use lithiums in this camera.

They do work and will not not damage the camera. You just won't get many shots from them. Canon includes a pair with the camera.

Canon also rates the lowest temp for the camera as 32F. So you are attempting to use the camera outside of approved limits...

A number of pieces of electronics have been reported to be damaged by lithiums--the voltage of a fresh cell can be 1.8V.

FWIW, the 60CSx GPS will detect an overvoltage from fresh lithiums and shut down to protect itself. Garmin does not list lithium batteries as being OK. In contrast, Garmin does list lithium batteries as being OK for the newer 62 model line.)

I am not aware of any (other) specific reports of damage in the A570, but haven't looked. However, one might consider this thread such a report...

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

One more interesting observation - the OSD battery options include voltage. Using that as a "meter" (lacking anything better), I observe:

A pair of Energizer "Ultimate Lithium"s, slightly used, registers 2.8-2.9 volts. This is the pair I've been using, which on occasion register as low battery.

A brand new pair registers 3.2 volts.

I took the pair from Maine which were reported as dead out of the recycling pile and they currently show 2.9-3.0 volts.

Brand new alkalines register 2.8 volts, but the low-battery light is blinking immediately.

I have not cleaned anything, but there is empirical evidence that opening/closing the door and/or taking out/inserting the batteries does occasionally clear the problem.

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

Brand new alkalines register 2.8 volts,

Sounds to me like the meter might be reading low--the voltage (new, no load) of an alkaline cell is 1.5V (x2=3.0V) and can vary from 1.50 to 1.65V.

However, the camera places some load--the internal voltage drop under load is higher for alkalines than for lithium or NiMH. (This is often referred to as internal resistance of the cell--higher resistance -> higher voltage drop under load.)

Low readings can also be caused by resistance in the battery contacts or wires.

I have not cleaned anything, but there is empirical evidence that opening/closing the door and/or taking out/inserting the batteries does occasionally clear the problem.

This is consistent with dirty/bad contacts.

Doug