What to drive in winter

[Mohamed Ellozy]

Business Week has a moderately interesting article (a bit superficial, IMHO) on What to Drive in Winter. Best advice:

Experts' best advice for driving on snow and ice: Don't, if you can possibly avoid it.

The Washington State Transportation Dept. advertises this catchier jingle: "Ice and snow, take it slow, or just don't go." It's safe to assume they know all there is to know about snow up in the Cascade Mountains, but most of the time, "just don't go" isn't realistic advice. On weekdays, most people need to reach the workplace, or at least the train station, regardless of bad weather. On weekends, a gallon of milk or that one missing ingredient for pumpkin pie can take us out of the house and onto slippery roads.

Winter is here, we are threatened with a dreaded "wintry mix" tonight. Drive safely!

 

[bignslow]

Every year the news churns out the same garbage about what to drive in the snow, and like Mohamed said they're usually superficial. There's two things that matter more than the car in most winter situation, first the driver, second the tires. Obviously my FWD compact won't be able to drive down an unplowed road with a foot of snow on it, but under any typical conditions I would take my car with snow tires over an AWD/4WD car/truck without. It is always funny how many people think that AWD/4WD makes you much safer in the snow, all that fancy stuff does is help you to get moving (and to a much lesser degree maintain stability).

Personally I'd be happy giving up 50% of my snow acceleration to gain that same amount in turning and braking (a.k.a. what keeps me out of the ditch).

 

[DrewKnight]

Crying over spilled milk (93 South closed Monday AM)

Good advice, Mohamed... I woke up at 4am to the sound of sleet on the skylight, and changed my alarm to an hour later. I am really glad I did, because 93 South was closed in Ashland for a while while they cleaned up a tipped-over milk tanker in the median just south of Exit 24. If I had left at my planned departure time, I probably would have spent some time sitting still. As it was, my commuting time was increased by about 30% due to slow-downs in Canterbury, Concord, and Merrimack.

 

[McRat]

Better than AWD/4WD is a network of fellow hikers along your route home.

Even with 4WD, I've had to make a few, "Hi... Got any room on the couch or floor? I can't see *&%+!" calls. I'd rather wait until morning, than deal with 10mph driving in whiteout conditions.

I tell my concerned relatives and friends not to worry about me on the mountain -the ride there and back is usually the most dangerous part of the trip.

 

[Stan]

"Good tires" and "take it slow" have always been my winter driving mantras. With good clearance, 4 wd drive and that mantra, together with some winter survival gear, I've been confident even traveling some of the barely plowed logging roads in Maine.

The weight and handling characteristics of any vehicle are important considerations in how, or whether, you tackle winter conditions. This was reinforced to me many years ago driving from Boston to southeastern Connecticut, through back roads in Rhode Island, during a blizzard ... in a '64 Austin Healey 3000 MK III, a heavy car with good "shoes", but about 3" of road clearance. All around me cars had spun out and gone off the road but the Healey trudged carefully, slowly and steadily for nearly 100 miles with snow drifted up at times well over the bumpers! I relented on the last 10 miles of this adventure and installed chains but the value of that mantra never left me.

 

[peakbagger]

All wheel drive sport untility vehicles are an important part of the winter time economy in the white mountains, just think of all the tow truck operators, hospital emergency rooms and body shops who depend upon the fact those types of vehicles allows the drivers to go a lot faster than the conditions warrant.

Realisitically, unless you are breaking through an unplowed road, a mechanically sound front wheel drive vehicle with snow tires will get you almost anywhere in NH in the winter. Studded tires are great if you stick to local rural roads, but they can get real annoying on the interstate. Some of the new "ice" tires do remarkably well in icy conditions. Nokia, Bridgestone and Michelin all have varieties, but they also tend to encourage people to go faster than the conditions warrant.

 

[KayakDan]

I have had great success driving year round on BS Duelers on my CR-V. Slow and easy,particularly in turns is the rule on snow. Once the tires break loose in a turn,you're gone.
Being in the car biz,I hear all kinds of advice,and this one surprised me. When installing new tires,they should always go to the rear axle first,then fronts. This policy has been adopted by Honda and Tire Rack recently.

One of the best things you can do for safe winter driving is learn what to do when things go wrong. Skid schools are an excellent training tool,but very hard to find,or very pricey.
One exercise you can try is find a street with NO traffic and no curbing,and a thin coating of snow. A big open parking lot(no light poles!) is even better.
Drive you trusty road warrior to about 15mph to begin-then yank up on the emergency brake.
Your now going into a skid-relax and slowly turn intothe skid-towards the side the rear wheels are sliding towards-the vehicle will straighten out,release the handbrake, and NOW you can brake gently.
Repeat at 20mph or so depending on how brave you are,until the turn becomes an easy response. Now when it happens,your response will be made from knowledge,not panic.

I did this on a skid pad at 50,and the instructor just looked at me and said" New England driver, huh?"

Let's all stay safe!

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Being in the car biz,I hear all kinds of advice,and this one surprised me. When installing new tires,they should always go to the rear axle first,then fronts. This policy has been adopted by Honda and Tire Rack recently.

That's interesting, KayakDan. What's the rationale for doing that?

Intuitively, I put new ones on the front because 1) that's where power is being provided and 2) most of the braking occurs in the front. So, would be very curious for why they recommend new ones on the rear.

 

[DougPaul]

That's interesting, KayakDan. What's the rationale for doing that?

Intuitively, I put new ones on the front because 1) that's where power is being provided and 2) most of the braking occurs in the front. So, would be very curious for why they recommend new ones on the rear.

If you are braking with more grip on the front the rear wheels are likely to skid first and the car tends to flip around backwards. If the front wheels skid first, at least the car will tend to stay straight.

Doug

 

[KayakDan]

Exactly as DP said...
In a hard braking situation on wet pavement,the rear of the car gets light,as the momentum shifts forward. Poor tread depth could make the car easily hydroplane,and slide sideways.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Ah yes, that makes sense. I guess I've been driving in northern NE for so long that you just automatically 'know' what to do if the rear starts to slide sideways. And personally - I'd never let the rear tread depth get so low that it would make much of a difference anyway. And, as ABS becomes more of a standard item on cars, that feature will compensate. Like many things - ABS will/has save lots of lives, but it 'dumbs' down driving skills.

Thanks -

 

[DougPaul]

And, as ABS becomes more of a standard item on cars, that feature will compensate. Like many things - ABS will/has save lots of lives, but it 'dumbs' down driving skills.

ABS will prevent some skids caused by overbraking or uneven traction, but won't prevent one caused by turning too fast or trying to accelerate too quickly. And once a skid develops, it won't help you recover.

Automatic traction control helps more than ABS but is still not a total cure.

IMO, it is still worth learning and practicing one's skid control skills. (I learned as a kid on a rear wheel drive car where one could induce a rear wheel skid by pulsing the gas while turning on snow.)

BTW, I always found the standard phrase "turn into the skid" to be pretty meaningless. Turning the car so as to straighten it out (relative to the direction it is going) always seemed like a better way to describe what to do. (Along with getting off the gas and off the brake.)

Doug

 

[SAR-EMT40]

Like many things - ABS will/has save lots of lives, but it 'dumbs' down driving skills.

Thanks -

Tremendously!

And many of the ABS systems I have seen just plain suck. They are getting better but the only thing I use the ABS system for is to notify me that I have lost traction during breaking and react accordingly. The machine still isn't at the point where it is better than a properly trained driver but the better systems are helpful to an untrained driver.

Just my $.02,
Keith

 

[DougPaul]

And many of the ABS systems I have seen just plain suck. They are getting better but the only thing I use the ABS system for is to notify me that I have lost traction during breaking and react accordingly. The machine still isn't at the point where it is better than a properly trained driver but the better systems are helpful to an untrained driver.

I view ABS simply as a means of preventing skids due to overbraking or uneven wheel traction while braking. Nothing more. A skilled driver can often do better* if he can predict the conditions, but traction can change faster than a human can respond to it (eg hard-to-see patches of ice).

* A while ago, I read that the rules of a European racing circuit were changed to prohibit the use of ABS. There were some fatal accidents shortly thereafter, so perhaps a good ABS is still better than a skilled driver.

I tested the ABS on my current car (2002 Subaru Outback) by driving to an empty spot in a parking lot where the wheels on one side were on snow and the wheels on the other side were on pavement and hitting the brakes. It handled the situation very nicely. (I recommend that everyone try this, if only to learn what the ABS activation feels like. In my case, it felt like the brake pedal was chattering.) One can also add turning while braking to the above test.

I once hit some verglas (black ice) at night while braking and ended up sideways in a non-ABS car. Fortunately I was only going a few mph and didn't hit anything. (I think the ice patch was caused by someone's sump pump emptying out onto the road causing ice under conditions where one would ordinarily not expect any.) ABS might at least have helped me to keep the car straight while it slid...

Doug

 

[Tim Seaver]

ABS is great when one wheel or side of the vehicle is on a surface with less traction than the other, but it has been proven to increase stopping distances on snow and ice, which I am not crazy about.

My favorite cars have been Audi Quattros and Subarus with 4 studded Nokian Hakkapeliittas, which are much quieter with studs than a lot of lesser brands. For icy, hilly, Vermont backroads, I would much rather be in a vehicle that has relatively low clearance but high traction.

Even among Subarus, there is a big difference in handling between a high-clearance, short wheelbase model like the Forrester, and the wagons like the Outback, which offers, IMO, much greater stability due to the longer wheelbase and lower profile.

 

[adamiata]

A bit of education and training can go a long way: http://www.team-oneil.com/school.intro.htm

 

[Maddy]

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2534699860068402287xNlaKR

Your newly licensed winter driver. Needs experience!
Always available.

 

[Maddy]

And...here is your new winter vehicle.
http://www.toyota.com/fjcruiser/index.html
It is equipped with brand new Nokian Hakkapalleta winter tires. (Thank you Kevin Rooney for you recommendation.)
However...... ice is ice!

 

[SAR-EMT40]

* A while ago, I read that the rules of a European racing circuit were changed to prohibit the use of ABS. There were some fatal accidents shortly thereafter, so perhaps a good ABS is still better than a skilled driver.

Doug

Not really comparing apples to apples here Doug. Those cars are typically 5 to 10 years ahead of what the industry is providing us. Other things involved are the speeds are faster so the systems have to work faster. Also the mechanical harmonics of the cars design is totally different than passenger cars. The brakes are the start of the mechanical system that also involves the shifting of the CG of the car that makes the car slide or not slide. This sets up the attitude of the car. The only reason for a skid on any surface is panic. Learning to lift your foot off of the brake when you desperately want to stop because you perceive an immediate emergency is a learned skill. It is not normal. Retraining your brain to lift your foot off of the brake and re-apply it not hard enough to skid again and try to steer around is the skill that needs to be practiced.

In ten years my vehicle may have an ABS system that I would believe is more useful. The one on my Dodge pickup is actually one of the better systems I have come across. I play with it for fun. I still never "keep my foot on the brake" as is recommended now. I can still drive (I do actually mean drive i.e. turning the wheel) the vehicle better without my brakes chattering from ABS then with the ABS engaged. When the brakes are chattering like that the tires are suffering from tangential slip. Therefore, as a percentage of time those tires are doing nothing for you to control your lateral motion. Not having them chatter gives you a much better ability to control your car.

YMMV,
Keith

 

[SAR-EMT40]

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2534699860068402287xNlaKR

Your newly licensed winter driver. Needs experience!
Always available.

How come Bernie doesn't have his cell phone up to his ear? I see its plugged in next to him.

Keith