Wind speed estimates...

[sli74]

I don't know about everyone else but I have gotten better at guessing wind speeds as I gain more and more experience above treeline. Being the internet junkie that I am I almost always come home after a day in the whites, particularly the presidentials and look up the wind speeds recorded for the day at the MWO. As I have continued to experience different winds and relating them to approximate speeds it has become easier to guesstimate.

I would also guess that one person's "knocked about" versus "crawling on hands and knees" wind speed will be different from anothers, based on their weight, muscle mass, height, etc???

sli74

 

[DougPaul]

I don't know about everyone else but I have gotten better at guessing wind speeds as I gain more and more experience above treeline. Being the internet junkie that I am I almost always come home after a day in the whites, particularly the presidentials and look up the wind speeds recorded for the day at the MWO. As I have continued to experience different winds and relating them to approximate speeds it has become easier to guesstimate.

This might be a biased calibration unless you actually visit the summit of Mt Wash--the winds at MWO are frequently higher than elsewhere in the Prezzies.

I would also guess that one person's "knocked about" versus "crawling on hands and knees" wind speed will be different from anothers, based on their weight, muscle mass, height, etc???

Don't forget the sail on your back...

Poles can be very helpful when one is being kicked around by the wind.

Doug

 

[Ed Poyer]

Proxy wind guages

Any thoughts about using hiking gear as proxy wind guages? One approach would be to dangle a trekking pole by the writst strap, or an ice axe by the head, compare the effect on the shaft to a wind guage reading. Then in the future, use that as a guestimate for wind speed. I've also noticed that my whistle takes on a life of its own in heavy wind; this might serve as another indicator. This doesn't need to be terribly accurate. But it would be useful at speeds approaching the 'push around' or 'knock down' speed.
These would be more handy above treeline than using the Beaufort scale.
Ed

 

[JohnL]

I have found hiking poles to be both a blessing and a curse when walking in very high winds. While they can help you maintain your balance, they get considerably blown around in big winds, making the planting of them in specific spots a real challenge, particularly in gusty situations.

I've walked in 60mph (measured) winds before but the wind speed was remarkably steady. However, heading uphill with the winds at our backs was considerably easier than heading back down into the teeth of the wind. At the time we were summiting Adams via Lowe's Path in -13 degree crystal clear weather. The roar of the winds at T-Storm Junction was such that we could not hear each other yelling from more than ten feet away.

One of the shortcomings of the Beaufort scale for the White Mountains is that when you are in winds where you need a reference of movement, (trees, leaves) you are above treeline and only have your feel for the windspeed. Unless of course if you have a measuring device.

JohnL

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Of course, a person's judgement of wind speed is complicated by their shape. The ratio of one's mass to wind facing surface area to mass has a great effect on the perception of the strength of the wind. For example, a short heavy person will perceive the wind's force much less than a thin skinny person.

Things go even further. A person's shape has an influence. For example, a large breasted woman standing sideways will create turbulance which a man cannot understand. Thus turbulance may or may not increase/decrease the perceived wind. (more research is needed in this area)

I''m sure many of us have been in the situation where you were knocked down, but not your partner (or visa-versa), showing that subjectrive extimates of wind speed are just that.

 

[DougPaul]

Any thoughts about using hiking gear as proxy wind guages?

Somewhere I saw a description of how to make a wind gage from a ping-pong ball hanging on a string and a protracter.

I personally am more concerned with how it feels rather than the numerical speed. And I always bring the appropriate gear for measuring it...

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

I have found hiking poles to be both a blessing and a curse when walking in very high winds. While they can help you maintain your balance, they get considerably blown around in big winds, making the planting of them in specific spots a real challenge, particularly in gusty situations.

I took the baskets off my hiking poles because they tend to get caught in the underbrush. Probably makes the poles easier to handle in the wind too.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Of course, a person's judgement of wind speed is complicated by their shape. The ratio of one's mass to wind facing surface area to mass has a great effect on the perception of the strength of the wind. For example, a short heavy person will perceive the wind's force much less than a thin skinny person.

Turning sideways (ie reduce your equivalent flat plate area) can reduce the forces too (unless you are too fat or are wearing a big pack...).

Things go even further. A person's shape has an influence. For example, a large breasted woman standing sideways will create turbulance which a man cannot understand. Thus turbulance may or may not increase/decrease the perceived wind. (more research is needed in this area)

Next, we can get into discussing lift and drag coefficients (drag_coefficient = flat_plate_equivalent_area / real_area) ...

BTW, hair has a lot more drag than skin or smooth clothing. (Yet another reason for wearing a hat...)

Doug

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I took the baskets off my hiking poles because they tend to get caught in the underbrush. Probably makes the poles easier to handle in the wind too.

Doug

Hmm ... maybe. I'm still working thru the visual image Pete created with his "a large breasted woman standing sideways will create turbulance which a man cannot understand"... Maybe we should hike with Pete more often.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Hey DP... More parameters for the equations...

age.

As the dimples on a golf ball help the wind more around it, an older person, with wrinkles may feel less force from the wind.

Indeed, it is a complex issue.

 

[DougPaul]

As the dimples on a golf ball help the wind more around it, an older person, with wrinkles may feel less force from the wind.

A famous case... The dimples produce turbulence in the boundary layer which delays its separation and thus lower the drag. (Turbulence in the boundary layer usually increases the drag.)

Dimples and wrinkles probably don't reduce the drag for people.

Indeed, it is a complex issue.

Too complicated for me--I only can handle some of the simple cases and some simple approximations.

Doug

 

[Paul the Explorer]

>>>>For example, a large breasted woman standing sideways will create turbulance which a man cannot understand<<<<< (Pete Hickey)

This mental image combined with anothers suggestion of a wind measuring device combining a ping pong ball and string has me contemplating a gadget that would necessitate the creation of a whole new type of wind scale with its own terminology. For instance,..."summited in heavy snow and a D cup gale"


It would the perfect companion to my previous meteorological contribution..... the man-in-a-kilt wind vane !

 

[sierra]

I once crossed the iced over parking lot on Mt Washington on my stomach, front pointing AND using my ice axe to advance winds where clocked at 0ver 65 mph with higher gust by the boys in the shack. One of the few times I felt like I might not be in control of a situation in the mountains.

 

[Mark_Goodearl]

Degree of sting from pack strap whippings?

There must also be a way to infer wind speed based upon how much or how little sting results from getting whipped by a loose pack strap or jacket draw cord.