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Thread: Amenities Chart for WMNF Fee Areas

  1. #1
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Amenities Chart for WMNF Fee Areas

    I am trying to develop an amenities chart for WMNF fee areas. Even if you aren't interested in fee politics, the chart can tell you for example which sites have toilets.

    The Forest Service guidelines for a recreational fee indicate that a site must have the following 6 items:
    a. Designated developed parking*
    b. Permanent toilet facility*
    c. Permanent trash receptacle*
    d. Interpretive sign, exhibit, or kiosk*
    e. Picnic tables and
    f. Security services*

    http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/d...guidelines.pdf

    Let us assume that hiring local police services and having rangers check for fees paid means that all WMNF sites qualify for f) - how do the sites do with having the other 5?

    I have created a table of amenities for those areas with fee containers shown on the WMNF website - note that there are additional fee signs elsewhere that are not on this list.
    I am asking for your help filling it out.

    For "Developed Parking", I am trying to indicate whether parking is just a wide spot on the side of the road, a gravel lot, or paved

    For Kiosk, I am trying to indicate whether it contains non-generic site-specific information at least 25" x 30" in size as in the above guidelines

    The chart is in a separate note for easier updates

  2. #2
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    WMNF Areas with Day-Use Fee Tubes - 5/1/10 update

    [HTML code is off so you have to imagine the formatting]

    Location Pkg Toilet Trash Kiosk Table
    Androscoggin Ranger District
    Caribou Trail Grv? N N ? ?
    Crocker Pond Grv? Y N ? ?
    Dolly Copp Picnic Area Pvd? Y N ? ?
    East Royce Trail Grv? N N ? ?
    Glen Ellis Falls Pvd Y ? ? ?
    Great Gulf Wilderness Pvd N N ? ?
    Hastings Trail Grv? N N ? ?
    Little Larry (sic) Road Grv N N ? ?
    Pine Link Rdsde N N ? ?
    19-Mile Brook Trail Rdsde N N ? ?
    Wild River Trail Grv Y ? ? ?
    Pemigewasset Ranger District
    Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail ? N N ? ?
    Beaver Brook Picnic (winter only) Pvd Y ? Y Y
    Caps Ridge Trail Lot N N ? ?
    Crawford Path Pvd? ? ? ? ?
    Drakes Brook Grv? N N ? ?
    East Pond (S) Rdsde N N ? ?
    East Pond Trail (N) Pvd? N N ? ?
    Eddy ? ? ? ? ?
    Edmonds (sic) Path Grv? N N ? ?
    Elbow Pond ? N N ? ?
    Gale River Trail Grv N N ? ?
    Garfield Trail Rdsde N N ? ?
    Greeley Ponds Trail (N) Grv? N N ? ?
    Hale Brook Trail Grv N N ? ?
    Hancock Overlook Pvd N N N/Gen ?
    Kinsman Notch (A.T.) Pvd Y Y ? ?
    Lincoln Woods Pvd Y Y N/Gen ?
    Livermore Road Grv? N N ? ?
    Long Pond Grv ? N ? ?
    Otter Rocks Pvd? Y N ? ?
    Rumney Rocks ? ? N ? ?
    Rumney Rocks II ? ? N ? ?
    Russell Pond ? ? ? ? ?
    Smarts Brook Rdsde N N ? ?
    Sugarloaf Trail Rdsde N N ? ?
    Tecumseh Trail (N) Grv? N N ? ?
    Welch Dickey Trail Pvd ? N ? ?
    Zealand Trail Grv N N ? ?
    Saco Ranger District
    Boulder Loop Trail Rdsde? N N ? ?
    Brickett Place Grav? N N ? ?
    Champney Falls Trail Pvd N N ? ?
    Covered Bridge ? N N ? ?
    Diana's Baths Grv? N N ? ?
    Downes Brook/ UNH Trails Grv? N N ? ?
    Liberty Trail Rdsde N N ? ?
    Lower Falls ? N N ? ?
    Oliverian Brook Trail Grv? N N ? ?
    Piper Trail Grv? N N ? ?
    Rocky Gorge Pvd? ? ? ? ?
    Russell-Colbath House Pvd? ? ? N-Gen ?
    Sabbaday Falls Pvd ? ? N-Gen ?
    Sawyer Pond Trail (S) Rdsde? N N ? ?
    Sawyer River Road (Rte. 302) Grv N N ? ?
    Sawyer River Road (Sawyer Pond Trail) Rdsde N N ? ?
    Sawyer River Road (Signal Ridge Trail) Grv N N ? ?
    Sawyer Rock Picnic Area Pvd? ? ? ? ?
    South Moat Trail Grv? N N ? ?

  3. #3
    Senior Member vegematic's Avatar
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    Great idea! Here's what I know off the top of my head and assuming that Grv stands for gravel parking lot...

    Location Pkg Toilet Trash Kiosk Table

    Caribou Trl Grv Y N Y N
    Crocker Pond Grv N? N? Y N
    East Royce Grv N N Y N
    Hastings Trl Grv N N Y N
    Wild River Trl Grv Y Y Y Y (Table is at the lean-to for trail workers)
    Caps Ridge Grv N N Y N

    -vegematic
    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat

  4. #4
    Senior Member MichaelJ's Avatar
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    Sabbaday has toilet, trash, picnic tables, and a kiosk.
    19-Mile has a kiosk.
    Wild River Trail starts in Wild River Campground, not sure how you'd characterize that.
    Beaver Brook wayside area does have trash barrels.
    Zealand trailhead parking does have a toilet, but no trash. There's a kiosk.
    Livermore is indeed gravel, I don't remember seeing any picnic tables.
    Hale Brook Trail has a kiosk.
    May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

  5. #5
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
    19-Mile has a kiosk.
    Basically any fee station has a kiosk, but according to the guidelines posting of regulations or generic information doesn't count. The question is whether it has site-specific info 25" x 30" or more.

  6. #6
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    revised 5/4/10

    Location Pkg Toilet Trash Kiosk Table

    Androscoggin Ranger District
    Caribou Trail Grv Y N ? N
    Crocker Pond Grv ? N ? N
    Dolly Copp Picnic Area Pvd? Y N ? ?
    East Royce Trail Grv N N ? N
    Glen Ellis Falls Pvd Y ? ? ?
    Great Gulf Wilderness Pvd N N ? ?
    Hastings Trail Grv N N ? N
    Little Larry (sic) Road Grv N N ? ?
    Pine Link Rdsde N N ? ?
    19-Mile Brook Trail Rdsde N N ? ?
    Wild River Trail Grv Y Y Y Y, at leanto

    Pemigewasset Ranger District
    Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail ? N N ? ?
    Beaver Brook Picnic (winter only) Pvd Y Y Y Y
    Caps Ridge Trail Lot N N ? ?
    Crawford Path Pvd? ? ? ? ?
    Drakes Brook Grv? N N ? ?
    East Pond (S) Rdsde N N ? ?
    East Pond Trail (N) Pvd? N N ? ?
    Eddy ? ? ? ? ?
    Edmonds (sic) Path Grv? N N ? ?
    Elbow Pond ? N N ? ?
    Gale River Trail Grv N N ? ?
    Garfield Trail Rdsde N N ? ?
    Greeley Ponds Trail (N) Grv? N N ? ?
    Hale Brook Trail Grv N N ? ?
    Hancock Overlook Pvd N N N/Gen ?
    Kinsman Notch (A.T.) Pvd Y Y ? ?
    Lincoln Woods Pvd Y Y N/Gen ?
    Livermore Road Grv N N ? N
    Long Pond Grv ? N ? ?
    Otter Rocks Pvd? Y N ? ?
    Rumney Rocks ? ? N ? ?
    Rumney Rocks II ? ? N ? ?
    Russell Pond ? ? ? ? ?
    Smarts Brook Rdsde N N ? ?
    Sugarloaf Trail Rdsde N N ? ?
    Tecumseh Trail (N) Grv? N N ? ?
    Welch Dickey Trail Pvd ? N ? ?
    Zealand Trail Grv Y N ? ?

    Saco Ranger District
    Boulder Loop Trail Rdsde? N N ? ?
    Brickett Place Grav? N N ? ?
    Champney Falls Trail Pvd N N ? ?
    Covered Bridge ? N N ? ?
    Diana's Baths Grv? N N ? ?
    Downes Brook/ UNH Trails Grv? N N ? ?
    Liberty Trail Rdsde N N ? ?
    Lower Falls ? N N ? ?
    Oliverian Brook Trail Grv? N N ? ?
    Piper Trail Grv? N N ? ?
    Rocky Gorge Pvd? ? ? ? ?
    Russell-Colbath House Pvd? ? ? N-Gen ?
    Sabbaday Falls Pvd ? ? N-Gen ?
    Sawyer Pond Trail (S) Rdsde? N N ? ?
    Sawyer River Road (Rte. 302) Grv N N ? ?
    Sawyer River Road (Sawyer Pond Trail) Rdsde N N ? ?
    Sawyer River Road (Signal Ridge Trail) Grv N N ? ?
    Sawyer Rock Picnic Area Pvd? ? ? ? ?
    South Moat Trail Grv? N N ? ?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Waumbek's Avatar
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    Thank you, Roy, this is a big project.

    Minor input:

    Kinsman Notch: there is a picnic table; there is an interpretive sign (bomber crash info). I did not see a permanent trash receptacle and I don't recall a bear-proof dumpster ever being there.

    (If you do not wish to pay to park there, go slightly west on 112, just beyond the pond, to the Beaver Pond Scenic Area, which is paved, has five or six designated parking places, a picnic table, and a much better view of the pond to gear up and down by. It is free.)

    Long Pond: there is a toilet; there are picnic tables (and grills). I believe there is an interpretive sign. Trash, I do not think so, at least I can't recall a bear-proof dumpster way out there.

    Re trash: how many of these parking lots are collecting trash, hence bears, I wonder?

    While you are at it, this guide to White Mountain pit stops might include a few historical notes, as these pkg lots are often located at trailheads or other sites that have some history to them. Beaver Pond was the headwater for the International Paper Company log drives down the Wild Ammonoosuc, and the current dam replaces a former splash dam. Lond Pond has interesting CCC and other involvements.

  8. #8
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waumbek View Post
    Kinsman Notch: there is a picnic table; there is an interpretive sign (bomber crash info). I did not see a permanent trash receptacle and I don't recall a bear-proof dumpster ever being there.
    There was a bear-resistant trash receptacle at least briefly near fee station probably used more by thru-hikers than parkers

    I have a WMNF press release from a few years ago that this site and Hancock Overlook were to become fee-free but it never happened

    And yes I parked at the beaver pond on my last visit :-)

  9. #9
    Banned Kevin Rooney's Avatar
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    Great idea, Roy. Give yourself an attaboy for taking the initiative on this task.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Waumbek's Avatar
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    This is beyond the scope of the database but it would be useful nevertheless: whether or not the area is plowed (or tends to be plowed) in winter. I say "tends to be" because in a really large snow storm, the state parking lots in Franconia Notch, for instance, may not see a plow for several days or more.

    For WMNF lots, Kinsman Notch is plowed; Long Pond, of course, is closed by virtue of the gated North-South Road.

    The Beaver Pond Scenic Area (no fee) mentioned above is not plowed.

  11. #11
    Member Bigfoot's Avatar
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    This is wonderful. Who else but hikers should be the watchdog for hiking venues?

    I can be a bit cynical at times......I hope all this effort is not used by "those" people to be the basis for changing the rules like bureaucrats do when put in a corner.

    I will watch this and try to provide feedback on any parking area I stop at.

    Thanks again for this huge effort.
    Life is too important to take seriously.

  12. #12
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    I (maybe like many) don’t pay a lot of attention to kiosks or trash receptacles. I recall at least one trash receptacle that had a sign to the effect: Only trash generated on forest land (i.e. don’t clean out your car or bring household trash). But I do make it my interest to know where to ‘go’. I can add to the list several of these off the top of my head.

    Androscoggin Ranger District
    Baldface Circle parking area (gravel lot, permanent outhouse, no tables, kiosk maybe)

    Pemigewasset Ranger District
    Beaver Brook Picnic/Ski lot open year round (permanent outhouse, tables, kiosk)
    Ammo trailhead (permanent outhouse, no tables)
    Crawford lot (permanent outhouse, no tables)
    Livermore Road lot (porta-potties last I recall, no tables)
    Covered Bridge and Boulder Loop (permanent outhouse)

    Saco Ranger District
    Piper trailhead (permanent outhouse, no tables, kiosk)
    Sawyer Rock picnic area (permanent outhouse, tables)

    A couple other spots that are nice to know about if the need arises:
    There was (not sure about this year) porta-potties at the public parking area at Chocorua Lake
    Ferncroft has porta-potties
    Lafayette lot on east side of highway (permanent outhouse)
    Saco Ranger station (east end of the Kanc) (flush toilets) (probably the other ranger stations as well)
    Kanc – outlook on south side at height-of-the-land (permanent outhouse)
    Pinkham and Highland Center (flush toilets)
    And if heading to Evans Notch there is a nice Maine Info Center on 302 at the Maine border just before the Rt.113 junction (flush toilets, picnic tables)
    I'm just outwalkin....

  13. #13
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waumbek View Post
    The Beaver Pond Scenic Area (no fee) mentioned above is not plowed.
    It was a couple years ago when I parked there, just like there was a trashcan at the trailhead - of course things change

    Quote Originally Posted by carole View Post
    I can add to the list several of these off the top of my head.
    Most of those were not fee trailheads hence not included in the original list, I suppose there is no reason this couldn't be expanded to all facilities in the White Mtns

    In that case there should probably be columns added for FEE SIGN, FEE TUBE, and WEBSITE - I think there are sites with fee tubes not listed on the WMNF website

    And somebody in another note wanted to know about bicycle racks, probably not worth a separate column unless a lot are found but could go at end as a note

    I suspect that a lot more info will appear as people revisit trailheads with this note in mind so I'll see what develops

  14. #14
    Senior Member Elizabeth's Avatar
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    Thanks for doing this. Knowing about facilities is very helpful for those of us who drink large cups of coffee before driving to the trailhead.

    Welch-Dickey has a good toilet facility. I don't know whether it is open year-round. The parking lot is big and paved.

    Crawford Path parking has a toilet facility that is open year-round. The parking lot is large and paved.

    Zealand has a toilet facility that is NOT open year-round. (The facility is there permanently, just not open in the winter.)
    Last edited by Elizabeth; 05-06-2010 at 01:22 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member WhiteMTHike's Avatar
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    I'll certainly go for Security services at all WMNF fee areas.
    "The laborers day ends with the going down of the sun, and he is then free to
    devote himself to his chosen pursuit, independent of his labor and his
    employer". Henry David Thoreau

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