Climber Who Left Partner Cited for Disorderly Conduct

Since we're all playing Tuesday morning quarterback...

The article suggests that the stronger partner should have waited around for his partner to be pulled off the mountain by the helicopter before rapping/downclimbing himself. But had he done that, he might have found that with darkness imminent he could no longer extricate himself safely. This may have been the reason he waited around long enough to make contact with rescuers, but not so long that he'd lose his opportunity to safely climb off of the mountain.

What if it had played out as follows: the pair climb part of a route and get to a point where one of the partners is exhaused and can't go up or down. The two talk and decide that the stronger partner should go for help while it's still light out, since hanging out together on the side of a cliff won't get them anywhere. The stronger partner raps a few pitches, downclimbs some sketchy class 4, and alerts rescuers who then successfully extricate the stranded climber just before nightfall. The two are joyfully reunited at the ranger station.

Only difference here is the existence of the SPOT device, which changed the order of events. Since the weaker partner had already decided that he wasn't going anywhere (and was so convinced of that fact that he was willing to activate his SPOT and be rescued, rather than rap the pitches), it's difficult to see what good it would do for the stronger partner to hang out there - besides create two helicopter short-hauls instead of one.

Now, if the two waited and waited, and darkness fell and they became convinced that they would freeze to death unless they rapped off immediately, yes the rope would come in handy. But that is a very, very bad sitation to rap in. Sometimes it's better to be proactive before you both find yourselves in a survival situation.

hikerbrian said:

Now, if the two waited and waited, and darkness fell and they became convinced that they would freeze to death unless they rapped off immediately, yes the rope would come in handy. But that is a very, very bad sitation to rap in. Sometimes it's better to be proactive before you both find yourselves in a survival situation.

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True, but now that Shade has the only rope, and his partner is left behind, the "waited and waited" situation (say the rescue has to be aborted or seriously delayed for some reason) goes from being a "very, very bad situation to rap in" to "no option but to hope you don't freeze to death."

And is it really as simple as "the spot just changed the timing"? Shade might have gone down alone to find help if it wasn't available, but wouldn't that be out of necessity rather than simple choice?

I'm left wondering; what if this was Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury?
What would they have done?

Since we're all playing Tuesday morning quarterback...

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We have few real details at this point as to why Shade left his partner and why he has been charged--many are wandering off into speculation.

Real situations are often complicated with aspects pointing toward conflicting actions. (And, of course, officialdom can also run amok after the fact.) Speculation based upon unsupported assumptions means little--I suggest that we wait until we know more about the details.

Doug

yawn yawn yawn double yawn double yawn yawn yawn and yawn again
blah blah blah yak yack Mongolian yak blah blah back sheep have you any wool wool wooly bully wooly bully wah wah wah wah wah bah bah bah badda badda bing a ling a ling. Sorry if I repeated anything that anyone else had already said but I thought it might be insightful. But repetitive. You can say that again!

and the answer to the other thread about place names without an apostrophe is Martha's Vineyard. There are four more in the US. Think you can find them? Ready....Go. Dave's right....after 1890, no more of these'''''''''''''''''''''

JohnL

JohnL said:

and the answer to the other thread about place names without an apostrophe is Martha's Vineyard. There are four more in the US. Think you can find them? Ready....Go. Dave's right....after 1890, no more of these'''''''''''''''''''''

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Let's leave that to the other thread. This is an interesting discussion going on here that doesn't need any hijacks.

This incident kind of reminds me of an epic that occurred a couple of years ago. I think it was 2005 or there a bouts when we got that big snow dump in Nov or Dec?
My partner and I decided to do Killington from Sherburn Pass. It's was only about a 10 mile round trip but with the trees heavily laden with fresh snow route finding was a nightmare. Additionally, being the first snowfall of the year trailbreaking duties between the two of us was exhausting.

Throughout the grueling day (aka nightmare epic) we continued on to summit late in the afternoon. Mercifully, we were able to follow our tracks on the way out but we were spent physically and emotionally. At this point we both had our heads down, weren't talking and just zombie walking out. With about 2 mile to go to the TH, both trudging along by headlamp, I turned around to check on my partner and he wasn't there. I waited for a few minutes for him to catch up but no show. So I turned around and started trudging back up the trail. A couple hundred yards up the trail I found him sitting on a downed tree.

The following conversations ensued.

Me: Hey dog, you ok?

Partner: (in a heavy, soft voice) I can't go any further.

Me: What do you mean you can't go any further?

Partner: (in a slightly louder voice) I'm spent. I can't do it.

Me: (now a bit concerned, and sizing up his bulk for a possible carryout) Dude.....that’s not an option. It's getting kinda f***ing cold. We can't stay here all night.

Partner: (now a little more stern) I can't f***ing do it.

Me: (with a bit of desperation in my voice) WTF dog....you gotta do it. WTF... I can't carry you.

Partner: -none responsive-

Me: (with the shock of our situation subsiding) Dude, lets take some time to rest, have something to eat and drink, and see what happens.

Partner: Whatever, I'm not going anywhere

After 20-25 minutes of rest I convinced my partner to get up and start walking. I let him take the lead while stayed up his @ss talking and bumping into him. We made it out late that night, both totally beaten.

If someone gives up, mentally or physically, there not much you can do.

Craig said:

After 20-25 minutes of rest I convinced my partner to get up and start walking. I let him take the lead while stayed up his @ss talking and bumping into him. We made it out late that night, both totally beaten.

If someone gives up, mentally or physically, there not much you can do.

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This is a good example and I'm glad you wrote it out for us. I've been taught that you let them know that it isn't possible to not continue, but giving them, and you, a chance to regroup will most often make a huge difference. Creating a will against won't argument scenario isn't going to make things any better. Good work, Craig, though I bet you are not alone in being a good friend.

Craig said:

If someone gives up, mentally or physically, there's not much you can do.

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I (We, Paradox was with me) have only been in a situation like this once and we weren't in charge, there were guides. One guy was crashing, like you describe, on the way up, below the crator rim of Rainier. The guides basically "screamed" him up to the top. Fortunately he recovered pretty well after a break, some food and water and didn't crash on the way down. Another guy, who seemed to do fine going up, lost his knees on the way down and was sledded from Muir to Paradise. TG for strong, young, ego driven guides. They basically just powered through it. I'm not sure what I'd have done.

I suspect that if Selwyn hadn't had the spot he would have summoned up the courage to overcome his fears and downclimb with his partner rather than face a night alone on the mountain while his partner went for help.

While I agree that Shane should get “Dick of the year” award for not staying with his partner;

Park service news release said:

Climbers are reminded that pursuing these activities requires a high level of personal accountability and responsibility. There is no guarantee of your safety or rescue when climbing or traveling in the backcountry.**

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did the park service overstep it's bounds by codling Selwyn who didn't demonstrate personal accountability, responsibility or self reliance in his predicament and dope slapping Shane with a citation for demonstrating accountability, responsibility and self reliance with a successful self-rescue?

I don't know.

Chip said:

I (We, Paradox was with me) have only been in a situation like this once and we weren't in charge, there were guides. One guy was crashing, like you describe, on the way up, below the crator rim of Rainier. The guides basically "screamed" him up to the top. Fortunately he recovered pretty well after a break, some food and water and didn't crash on the way down. Another guy, who seemed to do fine going up, lost his knees on the way down and was sledded from Muir to Paradise. TG for strong, young, ego driven guides. They basically just powered through it. I'm not sure what I'd have done.

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And there was 4 guides, so the one guy who crashed early could be guided back down the mountain. We ultimately ended up with 4 guides for 5 climbers.

Craig said:

I suspect that if Selwyn hadn't had the spot he would have summoned up the courage to overcome his fears and downclimb with his partner rather than face a night alone on the mountain while his partner went for help.

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I'm wondering if - either because he had the spot or because, thinking along the lines of Chip's example, Shade convinced/pushed him - Selwyn climbed farther than he should have or might have otherwise.

Not something we can really answer, but interesting to ponder.

Once had a hiking partner quit on me coming out of the Everglades in the late '70's. He laid down on the trail exhausted and just told me to go on and leave him there. He was spent after a two day's hiking in and out of the wilderness area. Finally got him on his feet and these two Jersey boys found out they were less then a hundred yards from the parking lot!

Mikie said:

...In 2001 we were hiking the Grinnell Glaicer Trail at Glacier National Park. The best way to do the hike is to take two boats to the TH. Or, if you are cheap, you can hike an extra miles to the TH and back. On the way back down from the glacier we ran into an 8 year girl who was hysterical. Seems her father was too cheap to pay for the boat rides and they hiked the lake shores to the TH. Part way across the second lake, her father decided that his daughter was going too slow. So, he abandon her. About 1/2 mile later the girl was surrounded by grizzly bears. For some odd reason they didn't bother her. Her father was also too cheap to buy her bear spray. We took her down to the boat and got her on the boat back to the hotel...

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What was the date (or even just the month?) of that incident? I'd like to contact GNP and read about that. I'm sure they have a record of an incident like that. Thanks.

What was the date (or even just the month?) of that incident? I'd like to contact GNP and read about that. I'm sure they have a record of an incident like that. Thanks.

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I have no clue of the date. The encounter was not reported to the Rangers.

Mikie said:

In 2001 we were hiking the Grinnell Glaicer Trail at Glacier National Park...We took her down to the boat and got her on the boat back to the hotel...I have no clue of the date. The encounter was not reported to the Rangers.

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Odd.

Odd.

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Chip: What do you find odd, and why?

I think it's odd that you have no clue when you were there and that you didn't report, effectively, an abandoned/lost child to anyway. But that's just my opinion, thinking out loud. I apologize for the drift.

I think it's odd that you have no clue when you were there and that you didn't report, effectively, an abandoned/lost child to anyway. But that's just my opinion, thinking out loud. I apologize for the drift.

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To tell a story well, it probably takes a 1,000 words. I took this story and compressed it into a couple sentences. The story was told to illustrate a point.

Sorry that you felt the need to judge and criticize me for a summarized story. No need to be aggressive about it.

In regards to knowing exactly when I was there 10 years ago. I can't remember where I hiked 10 weeks ago, and you want me to produce a date from 10 years ago. Kudos to you if you have that kind of memory. I don't.

In regards to not reporting it. When we got off the boat there was a Ranger led hike. Since my two friends were not in the best shape, we tagged onto the Ranger led hike. The Ranger was there when the story was told. No need to tell the Ranger the story all over again. Since the Griz pack wasn't aggressive or pursuing her and they are commonly seen there, there was no further action needed. Or at least, that is what the Ranger said. If you don't like this Ranger's actions, you can take it up with the NPS.

In regards to the child. There were 20 people there along with a Ranger. Not sure why you feel that I personally had to do something. One of the people in my group was a School Teacher. She took the girl under her wing and calmed her down. When we got back to the hotel, my friend, the school teacher, took the girl back to her mother and had a chat with her about her husband's actions.

Mikie said:

Sorry that you felt the need to judge and criticize me for a summarized story.

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I just stay away from passing judgement on anyone, regardless.

Oh, sorry.. did I say that already?