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Thread: Catskill 3500 Club New List

  1. #1
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Catskill 3500 Club New List

    The Club has now decided to delist Graham and Doubletop and NOT add any other peaks (previously they added Mill Brook and South Doubletop as temporary solutions to the closure of the 2 previously mentioned peaks).

    Complete text from the Club facebook page:

    THE NEW CATSKILL 3500 CLUB TALLY LIST
    The 3500 Club Board met on January 31st and decided that on March 22nd (the first day of spring) the Club tally list will consist of 33 peaks versus the current 35. The 4 winter climbs will remain as is. With Doubletop and Graham permanently closed to public access, we concluded that we will not continue with the current substitutions of South Doubletop and Millbrook Ridge after 3/21. That decision to not add in two other peaks may surprise some of you, but, after much discussion, the vote was unanimous.

    There were two main reasons for our decision:

    1) We are the 3500 Club, not the 35 Peak Club
    Prior to 1990 the tally list had 34 peaks and SW Hunter was added in that year. So there is precedence for less than 35 mountains on the list. Our thought process evolved into why add peaks just to stay at 35? If we are the 3500 club, let us stay consistent with that. And, yes, Rocky is under 3500 feet now, but there is such history with that mountain, it really needs to be grandfathered in as has been done in the Adirondacks and the Whites. The same occurred there when mountains were discovered to be under 4000 feet long after those lists were already well established.

    2) Impact
    With all the increased hikers and lists out there: single season, double single season, grid, etc, any bushwhack we choose will see a mountain top receive expanded traffic and no longer be the wilderness peak that it was. The amount of hikers is not going to decrease and we need to be mindful of what that means to these mountains we treasure. South Doubletop would start to see more and more herd paths and impact, as Doubletop has. Would people really respect the private property lines if they are trying to "bag' the peak quickly versus the longer and more physically challenging approaches? Would people still pop over to the summit on DT hoping they won't get caught? All those were concerns that led to our decision to not keep South Doubletop as a replacement or go with another bushwhack peak.

    Could we add another trailed mountain in to mitigate that?

    That brings us back to reason #1. Rather, we will encourage people to explore on their own and not be focused on a list but perhaps navigate to a mountain with the skills learned while working on the (soon to be) 33. Use the tally list as a stepping stone to other explorations - climb a peak from a direction you haven't or choose your own bushwhack! Hopefully the challenge of not having a set list will be inspiring!
    But, if you want another list, I want to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to check out 3 that will bring you to more places off the beaten path. Many of those trailheads will not be overcrowded and you will have the solitude you may not find on the more known routes.

    The Catskill Mountain Club All Trails Challenge
    https://catskillmountainclub.org/.../the-all-trails.../

    The Catskill Mountain Club Hiking Challenge
    https://catskillmountainclub.org/......ing-trails.../

    The Scary 19. Hikes in Schoharie County. Currently only a Facebook page, but really fun hikes to explore.
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/941395709637605

    Finally, why are we waiting to make that change until March 22?
    We are mid-winter and it seems more straightforward to finish this season as it is now versus changing mid-stream. That way those who are working on their winters fulfill the same requirements this year as everyone else. We realize that does mean those finishing next year will do less peaks. If you want to wait, that is your choice, but we want to give people advance notice and make a decision on how and when they want to finish. South Doubletop and Millbrook will still count as substitutes through 3/22 and are required to get a winter number this year or regular membership before 3/22.
    The board understands well that there will be many opinions after reading this! LOL! But do know we all gave it a great deal of thought and did not come to this decision and the timing of it lightly. Our website will soon be updated with the new information and an adjusted tally sheet.
    And Happy Hiking! The amount of snow that will be out there this weekend will be something so be prepared for some trail-breaking and get those snowshoes ready!

    Catskill 3500 Club Board
    Feel free to write directly with any questions to Maria at
    president@catskill-3500-club.org
    Tom Rankin
    Web Master - NY Forest Fire Lookout Association
    Volunteer - Balsam Lake Mountain
    Past President - Catskill 3500 Club
    CEO - Views and Brews

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Thanks Tom!
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

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    Senior Member Puma concolor's Avatar
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    So if you didn’t do Doubletop and Graham back in 1983 or so but did the other 33, do you get to now apply for a patch? Asking for probably no one, but there could hypothetically be one person in that situation. Maybe even two.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puma concolor View Post
    So if you didn’t do Doubletop and Graham back in 1983 or so but did the other 33, do you get to now apply for a patch? Asking for probably no one, but there could hypothetically be one person in that situation. Maybe even two.
    My read of that is yes. Assuming you repeated the Winter 4.
    Tom Rankin
    Web Master - NY Forest Fire Lookout Association
    Volunteer - Balsam Lake Mountain
    Past President - Catskill 3500 Club
    CEO - Views and Brews

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    What might be an interesting twist is to keep it at 35 and have people just repeat their favorite two and when they apply for their bling, a question on the form can be "Which two did you repeat". I'd be curious what the "favorite' list would look like. We are have our favorite peak and they are all not the same.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Puma concolor's Avatar
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    ^^^^^

    This is easy. Hunter and Slide ... my first two Catskill 3500 peaks that I initially hiked on back-to-back days way back in February 1995 during my Northeast 111er days. Was most recently atop Hunter in the summer of 2019 with my then 10-year-old daughter.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    I'd probably pick Black Dome and Big Slide as Big Slide I've been to in three different seasons and each trip was memorable. Black Dome I did with a friend in January on one of those real cold but so crystal clear the sky was a cobalt blue and the colors of the trees high up on the peak. I took my first picture looking straight up getting the contrast of the branches with the cold blue sky.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    I'd probably pick Black Dome and Big Slide as Big Slide I've been to in three different seasons and each trip was memorable. Black Dome I did with a friend in January on one of those real cold but so crystal clear the sky was a cobalt blue and the colors of the trees high up on the peak. I took my first picture looking straight up getting the contrast of the branches with the cold blue sky.
    I think you mean Slide, as Big Slide is in the ADKs.
    Tom Rankin
    Web Master - NY Forest Fire Lookout Association
    Volunteer - Balsam Lake Mountain
    Past President - Catskill 3500 Club
    CEO - Views and Brews

  9. #9
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    What peaks in the Whites under 4000ft have been grandfathered in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    What peaks in the Whites under 4000ft have been grandfathered in?
    Tecumseh, for now.

  11. #11
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    Tecumseh, for now.
    The "grandfathered in" peaks in the Adirondacks were formerly believed to be at least 4000 ft, but subsequently found to be under that height. However, they are still on the official 46 list and you must climb them for entry into the club. Hence, they have been grandfathered. This has not happened in the Whites with Tecumseh, and it is unlikely to. If the committee decides it is not at least 4000 ft, it will simply be dropped from the list.
    Last edited by maineguy; 02-09-2021 at 09:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    The "grandfathered in" peaks in the Adirondacks were formerly believed to be at least 4000 ft, but subsequently found to be under that height. However, they are still on the official 46 list and you must climb them for entry into the club. Hence, they have been grandfathered. This has not happened in the Whites with Tecumseh, and it is unlikely to. If the committee decides it is not at least 4000 ft, it will simply be dropped from the list.
    Exactly this has happened in the Whites with Tecumseh. It was found to be less than 4k feet several years ago and the USGS placed a new benchmark on the peak indicating such. It currently remains on the list. What am I missing?

  13. #13
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    Exactly this has happened in the Whites with Tecumseh. It was found to be less than 4k feet several years ago and the USGS placed a new benchmark on the peak indicating such. It currently remains on the list. What am I missing?
    The AMC has not changed the elevation of Tecumseh on the official list, at least not on the website. The AMC maintains the list, not the USGS. That's what all the talk on the other forum has been about. It's still on the list (at the old elevation), but maybe not for long. If they decide to drop it, as has been mentioned, then it is just gone. If they decide to keep it on the list even though it is not 4000 feet, it will be "grandfathered in". I believe that nothing official has happened since this was posted:

    https://www.outdoors.org/articles/bl...e-4000-footers
    Last edited by maineguy; 02-10-2021 at 07:59 AM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Rankin View Post
    I think you mean Slide, as Big Slide is in the ADKs.
    You are correct, as the Catskills' highest peak, I added Big in error. (I think all the recent talk on hiking and skiing accidents in NH had me thinking of Curtis and Ormsbee who died in a June snowstorm on their way to an AMC meeting back in 1900 on Mount Washington. For those who don't know, the fastest route up Slide is by a trail named on Slide in their honor. http://catskillmountaineer.com/SMW-slide2.html

    Now Big Slide was the most recent NY peak with "Slide" in it's name with my children.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    For those who don't know, the fastest route up Slide is by a trail named on Slide in their honor.
    If you got that data from Catskill Mountaineer, I'm not surprised, because it's incorrect, unless you start at Denning, but that's the long side.
    Tom Rankin
    Web Master - NY Forest Fire Lookout Association
    Volunteer - Balsam Lake Mountain
    Past President - Catskill 3500 Club
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