2 Catskill questions

My first question is about a proposed trail I heard about a while ago, I think it might even be an upcoming Long Path reroute. Are there still plans for a trail going over Cross Mt., Mt. Pleasant, Romer Mt. to Phoenicia from Wittenberg, or is my memory playing tricks on me? I have often looked up at that ridge from Woodland Valley and wondered what it would be like to walk it. Is this in the works, has it been flagged or scouted yet, any decent places to camp? Has anyone been up on there lately?

My next question is about the Wildcat peaks between Slide Mt. and Frost Valley. I think Jays maps (which are newer than mine) show a proposed trail over its 2 peaks. Once again - has this trail been flagged, scouted, any work done, etc. ? Are there any views from the Wildcats, herd paths, decent places to camp, etc?

Just thought I would throw this out here, see if any of our Catskill experts could help. Thanks, Fred

That trail was supposed to be marked w/ tape last spring. I don't know if it was nor when it is due to be put in. I saw no evidence of a junction last fall but I could easily imagine the trail builders concealing it until the trail is completed.

The Catskill3500 yahoo group may be a good place to ask on this.

I, for one would love to see more connector trails built in the Catskills "uniting" the trail system into a cohesive whole.

LP relos

Awhile back there was a relo of the LP off the road and over Wildcat Mt. I have never hiked this section.

As far as the relo of the trail from Woodland Valley Rd to Romer Mt., I think it was approved and flagged several years ago and a parcel of land purchased near the Phoenicia end for a trailhead- but it was never cut. The NYNJ Trail Conference will have more information. There is a whole section on the LP on their website. (NYNJTC).

There is tons of camping oppurtunites, either "at large" or at Woodland Valley Camping Ground (DEC). There is also a private campground, with RV hookup on Woodland Valley Road.

My personal opinion is that the LP should go back up from Woodland Valley Camp and then over Panther and down Fox Hollow. Then just before the Esopus make a left on an old road and follow an abandoned railroad bed to Phoenicia. I have traversed this route and it is far superior to a road walk down Woodland Valley and the walk along the Esopus on the railbed is not that bad. Although you are in earshot of Route 28. Also, you get another 3500 footer (Panther) and Giants Ledge onto the LP.

I have not seen any recent notices on the NYNJTC website, nor in their publication (The Trail Walker) about either the Wildcat Trail or the Long Path on Cross/Pleasant/Romer Mountains. Assuming the proposed route on the 1998/2001 maps is still accurate, the Long Path will come down to Lane Street (a short dead end road off of High Street) just west of Phoenicia. That area was still shown as private, but perhaps there has been a purchase or easement since 2001.

The Wildcat Trail will not be part of the Long Path, but it will be the start of the Finger Lakes Trail in the Catskills, and its connection with the Long Path. I looked for, but did not see any evidence of the trail last August at the trail junction of the Curtis-Ormsbee and East Branch Trails (where the 2001 NYNJTC map shows the proposed connection). But as Warren mentioned the trail builders often leave the first 50-100 yards of a new trail unmarked until the trail is ready to open. I know that was the case on the Red Hill Trail. I was able to find that trail one year before it was officially opened. The first 50 yards were not marked to discourage use as the fire tower restoration was not complete. But the rest of the trail was fully marked and was not hard to find. I had seen several announcements about the Red Hill trail during its construction, and so I knew it would be there. But I have seen no notices on these two proposed trails you are asking about. Contacting the NYNJTC may be worthwhile.

The proposed Wildcat Trail appears to go over East Wildcat. However, West Wildcat would be a short bushwhack from the point where the trail descends off the ridge. There will still need to be another Finger Lakes Trail section from the West Branch Trail to the Neversink Hardenburgh Trail (perhaps on the southern slopes of Doubletop). The Millbrook Trail to Balsam Lake Mountain, and a series of trails on NYNJTC Map 44 are part of the Finger Lakes Trail.

Not every "proposed trail" gets built. I recall in the late 70s, the DEC proposed a multiple use horse/snowmobile/hiking trail. It would have gone up the strip of state land opposite the western end of the Devil's Path and pass below (not over) Evergreen and Rusk Mountains and connect to the Spruceton Trail. That was shown as proposed for several years on the DEC Catskill trail maps, but was (some say thankfully) never built.

I was just looking at some old USGS topo maps and the Phoenicia Quad shows an old woods road or trail going north from the summit of Romer up to 28. The planned LP reroute must be based on this line for that section.

I agree w/ Warren to an extent about connecting up the Catskill trail system. I would support both the trails being discussed on this thread. Some kind of LP reroute is definitely agreeable, just to get it off the road. Aaron, your idea isn't half-bad either. Have you ever pitched it to the Trail Conference?

As for the Wildcats Trail, it would connect two major "wilderness" areas, and open up some interesting backpacking options. For now, though Freddy, let's just say "trails schmails" and go 'whacking.
As least once I get over this @$%^&* cold.

Matt

Matt, I have seen that old road on the 1960 USGS Phoenicia quad. It starts up Romer from the junction of the Woodland Valley and Herdman Roads just west of the Woodland Valley bridge over the Esopus, and near the old Simpson-Phoenicia ski center. That old road goes to 2220' just short of the 2240' summit of Romer. It appears that the Long Path will use a good portion of this old road on the ridge top. However, the proposed LP (shown on the 1998 and 2001 NYNJTC maps) descends off Romer further east. The older 1903/1948 Phoenicia quad (warning may be a slow download) shows another old quarry road even further east, also not the proposed route. I suspect the area is covered with old roads as it was extensively logged. Lane Street (the apparent proposed trailhead) may the start of another old road.

I told Howie Dash of my proposed route of the LP back around 1990 and he said he was hesitant of having a trail backtracking. I said the AT goes north from Pinkham Notch up Madison. This I feel is kind of similar. he wasn't impressed with my idea. There is still some road walking from Fox Hollow Road to east of Phoenicia but it isn't as boring or as long as the stretch along Woodland Valley Road.

I'm thinking of camping on East Wildcat this weekend. (friday to Saturday or perhaps Sunday morning (mom's day!). I will report on any such trail spotting that I may find.

When I updated my 1998 catskill maps to the 2001 version, one of the things I noticed was the relocation of the proposed trail that goes over East Wildcat! I think I even posted a question at the TC forum but no responses.

Jay

The NYNJTC is actively working with the DEC Region 3.

If anyone wants more information on this reroute, please e-mail me directly at [email protected]

Moose

The Wildcat connector trail is also part of region 3.

The most important thing for Region 3, right now, is resolution of the Neversink / Deer Shanty crossing crisis.

Moose

Thanks everyone for the replies and info. I agree that Catskills trail system could be improved with a few connecting trails. I've been told privately that the proposed Romer/Cross trail was flagged in 2001 but hasn't been worked on since. I wasn't aware of how slowly the politics of trail building work, but wow! - perhaps by the year 2100 the Long Path will finally go through the 'dacks to Canada and the trail will be connected and off the roads?

This being NY, the empire state, I think our Long Path could benefit from some regional pride and maybe attention from our governor, who I've been told likes to hike! I know that blazing unofficial trails is un pc but what can us hikers do to speed things up? Can one volunteer toward creating a specific trail section? I'm definitely interested in this one!

That being said, would anyone like to explore this section with me? I am thinking of doing it the Sunday after the escarpment trail hike, maybe take it from Phoenicia to Wittenberg and back or spot a car in Woodland valley.

Mark, The Finger lakes Trail link you posted looks interesting. Are there any maps available of its proposed route you could link us to? Thanks, Fred

Freddy, I don't have any more info other than the Finger Lake Trail org site. There is a high level online map. You can get the general direction of the trail from the descriptions of the map sections. Their website also recommends the NYNJTC Catskill maps. There are still lengthy road walks in the official route.

Currently the Long Path connection is at the trail junction near Deer Shanty Brook, and down to the Denning trailhead. Then a road walk down the entire length of the Denning Road to Claryville. Up County Route 47 to Pond Road and then up the entire length of the Neversink Hardenburgh Trail to the Balsam Lake trailhead, and up to the Millbrook Trail. It then follows the series of trails on NYNJTC Map 44 as far as Campbell Brook Road. It is not clear to me whether the FLT uses the Mud Pond Trail or not. There is then another very long road walk west.

Some place I read (don't remember where) that the Wildcat Mountain Trail was to be the start of off road replacement for Denning Road section. It is my speculation about the additional link from the West Branch Trail over to the Neversink Hardenburgh Trail, but that does appear to be the logical choice.

The NY-NJ Trail conference is actively working with the DEC on the re-route. If anyone on this list would like to help, please contact me, as I'm the NY-NJ TC coordinator for the project.

Elie Bijou
[email protected]

Count me in!

Hi Elie, I would like to help. I'm especially interested in helping get the trail going from Phoenicia. I think it would be great if hikers could get right off the bus from NYC, walk through town and get into the woods, on the ridge, and eventually to Wittenberg w/o road walking on the Long Path. It would also be good to get the ball rolling over the Wildcats as well, linking the trails around Slide with the trails in Frost Valley. This would open up all kinds of interesting loops and thruhike possibilities. I'll e-mail you privately about this as well. Thanks, Fred

PS. Perhaps we could make this a trail project for a group of us Catskill VFTT'ers?

FLT tree tags

I actually saw a tree tag (disc) for the FLT. It appeared to be the start of it because it was indicated at a point where a trail crossed a road; it was on one side but not the other. It was on Mary Hill rd, SW of margaretville.

Mike