Bear canisters required where?

Am I right in assuming that I must have one at the Boquet River leanto but not at a Calkins Brook campsite?

The Bear Necessities!

Audrey.....

The answer to your question is no.....and yes. Because both areas you speak of are not located in the Eastern High peaks Zone, bear-resistant containers are not required in either location.

The Eastern High Peaks Zone is marked on the composite map included in the jacket of the Adirondack Mountain Club's 13th Edition of the High Peaks Region Guide. The "boundary" between the Eastern High Peaks and the Western High Peaks runs roughly parallel to the Northville/Placid Trail between Henderson Lake and Upper Preston Pond at it's southern point over MacNaughton Mountain, Wallface Ponds, Street and Nye Mountains terminating the northern point near Peacock Mountain (private land).

Here is a link to information regarding the new NYSDEC regulation:
http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/propregs/index.html#190p

But isn't the Bouquet River Leanto in the Dix Wilderness, not the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness?

Bouquet River Leanto is in the Dix Wilderness and if I read the reg correctly no canister is required.

However while I would think a bear hang would be effective at Calkins Brook, I would wonder if a canister would be a wise addition to a stay at Bouquet River Leanto. Especially if it's a month or more into the new regs there is the argument that a stay at a known and used site may have acquired a bear that's moved on from the eastern high peaks area.

I'm sure others will have thier opinions on this, but I would go back and forth as to canister or not if I was staying there this summer.

Correction

I just got off the phone with Kenneth Kogut, Region 5 Headquarters in Ray Brook. He said you do not have to have a bear-resistant container in the Dix Mountain Wilderness or the Giant Mountain Wilderness.

I apologize for getting a bit side-tracked on this issue. When I went to the DEC website to confirm my thoughts on Audrey's question, I found a lot of words, but no geographical dimensions (illustrated or otherwise) to the Eastern High Peaks. So I went to the ADK High Peaks Region Guide and discovered a red triangular marking on the composite map that clearly shows the western boundary of the Eastern High Peaks which I described in my reply above. However, I asssumed (incorrectly) that all wilderness east of the western edge of the Eastern High Peaks boundary would be subject to this new regulation because there was no other boundary marking the other dimensions on the map.

In our discussion, Mr. Kogut said that he would try to get a map posted on the DEC website showing all the boundaries of the Eastern High Peaks so there would visually be a clearly defined area for hikers seeking information on exactly the question posed by Audrey.

Mr. Kogut said the new regulation is meant to target the serious bear/problem areas - Flowed Lands, Johns Brook Valley, Lake Colden and Marcy Dam. (I suppose it will only be a matter of time before the bear populations in other wilderness areas would be compromised by careless people resulting in the regulation being expanded to all wilderness.)

I have amended my initial reply above.

PROPOSED Bear Canister Regulation

Here is a link to information regarding the new NYSDEC regulation:
http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/propregs/index.html#190p[/QUOTE]

Please note the link goes to the new PROPOSED DEC regulation.

There is a public comment period until July 5, 2005- I don't think the regulation will go into effect before that date?

Margaret

Apropos Miss Margaret's post, the new canister rules, if they are implemented (and it seems likely they will be), will not come into effect until some time after July 5. The initial advisory that came from ADK and was so widely circulated was flawed*, and was corrected by Neil Woodworth the following day. Unnoted in it was the fact that there is a 45 day public comment period on the rule change, as is noted at the link in Miss Margaret's post. This comment period ends on July 5, and the regulation (assuming approval) will come into effect at some date thereafter.

A geographical clarification is absolutely essential and I'm pleased (nay, delighted) to hear that DEC will provide it.

Ted.

* The root cause was the DEC's failure to list the comment period in the Environmental Notice Bulletin, as is legally required.

Pete Hogan said:

Mr. Kogut said the new regulation is meant to target the serious bear/problem areas - Flowed Lands, Johns Brook Valley, Lake Colden and Marcy Dam. (I suppose it will only be a matter of time before the bear populations in other wilderness areas would be compromised by careless people resulting in the regulation being expanded to all wilderness.)

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I believe, if you really take a look at the history of the bear problem at Flowed Lands and Lake Colden, Marcy Dam and in the Johns Brook Valley, you will discover that the beasts became really troublesome there after town dumps were closed. After the dump closures the bears dispersed, then recongregated where substantial human traffic created a situation that spelled "easy pickin's." It was as much a matter of bears being bears as it was of "careless people."

History often has a way of repeating itself, especially if the lessons it teaches go unheeded.

So . . . my guess is that over a while in time the Eastern High Peaks bear canister rule will succeed in frustrating the bruins around Flowed Lands etc., which eventually will cause those animals to disperse. Provided, of course, there is good compliance with the rule. Bear nature being what it is, though, word will get out along the bruin grapevine and the beasties eventually will recongregate where the pickin's are easy: say, in the Giant and Dix Wilderness areas?

Unless . . .

To break the cycle of backcountry problem bear development in the region at large, it would seem prudent for campers to make a bear canister part of their standard Adirondack gear even where it is not required. This seems like an opportune time to get on the bandwagon and help develop a "new ethic" for the region, much like the "if you carry it in, carry it out" started becoming the standard way of doing things 40 years ago.

Just my two cents worth on this.

G.

I second Grumpy's comments. No point reffering to a map each time one goes out to hike to see which side of a line you'll be on. Just use a canister everywhere, they are about a fool proof way of protecting ones food. The weight and bulk is a little concern that many are fighting over but it seems the regulations are inevitable and the weight is just a small price to comply to regs and save our food and stop the bears from frequenting certain areas.

I'll weigh in again with this comment, Bear canisters are not only useful in protecting your food from bears. They are also fool proof with racoons, rodents, and other creatures.

We need to find some motto for the canister campaign, something like "Sleep well tonight knowing your food is safe from....." A nice poster would help. Any artists out there?

A difference of opinion

It was as much a matter of bears being bears as it was of "careless people."

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While I agree with your thoughts regarding the consequences of the new regulations concerning adjacent wilderness areas to the Eastern High Peaks, I do not support the notion that places as much responsibility on

bears being bears as on careless people.

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While I suspect some of what you say fits a bear's profile, I am not ready to excuse past practices (or continued careless behavior) of uneducated, uninformed and unprepared campers.

I also believe it is about time that people who frequent all wilderness areas regardless of DEC regulations take this current issue as an opportunity to show leadership, be prepared with bear-resistant containers and follow prudent storage protocols.

It is a great opportunity to take responsibility and ownership of this issue and (hopefully) return wildlife to a more natural state. Idealistic...perhaps....but so worth the effort.

Thanks ,everyone. My question was in truth rhetorical, because I plan to get a canister anyway. I think it's a great idea although its bulk will force me to get a nice new bigger pack. I never liked the game of hanging anyway. Is it big enough to sit on?

audrey said:

Is it big enough to sit on?

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Yes, for you or the bear.

One at a time, please.

Doug

great stool

makes a great stool, used mine on a number of occasions while sitting around the tent, then stash all food and trash in it, place it away from the tent and know its contents will be waiting for me in the morning all safe and sound

speaking of bear canisters...

At which facilities does the ADK have bear canisters available for rent? I know they are available at the Adirondak Loj. Are they available anywhere else? e.g. Johns Brooks Lodge

A&W said:

At which facilities does the ADK have bear canisters available for rent? I know they are available at the Adirondak Loj. Are they available anywhere else? e.g. Johns Brooks Lodge

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The HP guide book mentions that they can be rented or purchased at the Loj (Info Center), but also says you can borrow (rent?) from some of the ADK chapters.

A&W said:

At which facilities does the ADK have bear canisters available for rent? I know they are available at the Adirondak Loj. Are they available anywhere else? e.g. Johns Brooks Lodge

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You can also rent them from EMS in Lake Placid and I believe The Mountaineer in Keene Valley also rents them.