Bear Cans required in WMNF - Did I miss this?

[peakbagger]

I was at the Welch Dickey trailhead today and there was WMNF sign stating all food must be stored in locked vehicle or a bear can. It cites the CFR and refers to $100 fines. I do not remember when it went from "should to a shall". My guess is it was slipped in during Covid?\

So does that mean my dayhiking snack and lunch need to be a bear can?

BTW, Welch Dickey Lot is about half its prior size due to construction work. The lower lot if completely blocked off the SW corner of the main lot was clogged with construction vehicles.

 

[JoshandBaron]

2019. Only needs to be stored in a can or hung if unattended. What grinds my gears is Ursacks aren't acceptable alternatives to a can. I got a ticket for my Ursack in 2018. I still don't use a can or hang. They also have different specs for acceptable hang distances on different parts of the website.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd644822.pdf

 

[peakbagger]

Okay, so the signage is misleading, legit hangs still are acceptable although few hangs I have seen are legit.

 

[maineguy]

Only used a canister once, in the ADKs. Some bear(s?) knocked it around but never got it open. My problem with them is that they are awfully large. I wish someone would make a smaller one. Not everyone needs to store a week's worth of food in one.

 

[wardsgirl]

I've been using a BearVault Solo for years.

2 pounds!! But well worth the weight because it's a chair, a drum, a washing machine, etc...

And no crumbled crackers or cracked eggs.

I love it!

 

[nartreb]

2019. Only needs to be stored in a can or hung if unattended. What grinds my gears is Ursacks aren't acceptable alternatives to a can. I got a ticket for my Ursack in 2018. I still don't use a can or hang. They also have different specs for acceptable hang distances on different parts of the website.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd644822.pdf

The bold part is not stated in the order you linked. The order refers to 36 cf4 261.58(cc), which pertains to "possession or storage" of food anytime. The order makes an exception for the times when food is actively being prepared or eaten, but not for food that's being "attended". (Nor should it; the point is NOT to associate people with easy food.)

 

[peakbagger]

Here is a copy of the notice at the Welch DIckey trailhead. Note no reference to hanging or any exclusion for dayhiking. Reading that notice, a bear can is required day or night if the hiker has any food.

FYI, part to the bearproofing aspect of the canisters is to make the diameter large enough to make it that the bear cannot put full pressure on the cannisters outer diameter with its teeth. The container deflects and pops out of the bear's mouth.

 

[JoshandBaron]

Timely: Do You Need a Bear Canister for the White Mountains? - SectionHiker.com

 

[JoshandBaron]

The bold part is not stated in the order you linked. The order refers to 36 cf4 261.58(cc), which pertains to "possession or storage" of food anytime. The order makes an exception for the times when food is actively being prepared or eaten, but not for food that's being "attended". (Nor should it; the point is NOT to associate people with easy food.)

If they think anyone is putting food normally stored on their person or a hipbelt in a can, I have a bridge to sell them... but they'd probably just tear it down.

The logic doesn't make sense. If you have to have a can then why is hanging an option?

 

[maineguy]

I don't understand. I just read where Ursacks are permitted in both Glacier and Yellowstone NPs. Why would they not be legal in the Whites? I mean, those parks have serious bears.

 

[Ear Drum]

video of a bear opening an unlocked car door

 

[Grey J]

This appears to be an exercise in semantics. I would not consider my backpack as a "food storage container" although I suppose technically it is. I don't believe the sign and the warning is intended that way although the wording is open to interpretation.

 

[peakbagger]

It has been mentioned before, but the various WMNF ranger stations do have cannisters to loan. My cannister is for multiday trips and way to big for weekend use unless I put all my gear in it and attach a couple of straps to it and skip the daypack.

 

[JustJoe]

Sort of related to this. You hear this on FB a lot. I've gotten in some degree of confrontations about this. But an increasing amount of people are dropping there packs to peak-bag. The #1 spot this is occurring is at the bottom of Owls Head Slide. Not sure how long ago it was, but there was a bear issue, right there, for that reason. People don't get that if a bear finds food in a backpack, it will associate a backpack with food. That's even if it's on, your back. Not to mention in that location, you're almost a mile and 1500' away from your gear if you should run into a problem. And there's always the possibility of returning to a torn apart pack. Even if one does remove and bring every food item with them, the smell is going to still be there. I try to tell people dropping your pack for extended times and distances is a very bad idea. But it falls on deaf ears.

 

[JoshandBaron]

I don't understand. I just read where Ursacks are permitted in both Glacier and Yellowstone NPs. Why would they not be legal in the Whites? I mean, those parks have serious bears.

The language of the order says can and rangers have said Ursacks don't count despite passing the same tests the cans do.

 

[Hachi]

Sort of related to this. You hear this on FB a lot. I've gotten in some degree of confrontations about this. But an increasing amount of people are dropping there packs to peak-bag. The #1 spot this is occurring is at the bottom of Owls Head Slide. Not sure how long ago it was, but there was a bear issue, right there, for that reason. People don't get that if a bear finds food in a backpack, it will associate a backpack with food. That's even if it's on, your back. Not to mention in that location, you're almost a mile and 1500' away from your gear if you should run into a problem. And there's always the possibility of returning to a torn apart pack. Even if one does remove and bring every food item with them, the smell is going to still be there. I try to tell people dropping your pack for extended times and distances is a very bad idea. But it falls on deaf ears.

That was me! My first post and boy did I feel like a jerk. I have learned a lot since then. FWIW, I have never left my pack anywhere since. That hike to date was my longest, scariest and most painful of all the 48 I did.

 

[DayTrip]

This appears to be an exercise in semantics. I would not consider my backpack as a "food storage container" although I suppose technically it is. I don't believe the sign and the warning is intended that way although the wording is open to interpretation.

Someone in the comments of the Section Hiker post indicated they called and were told they accidentally omitted the "transporting of food" part in the notice so presumably you don't literally need to have it in a vault all the time. Kind of a big omission. Maybe an updated notice was issued? I have to admit I had no idea this was the rule now. I've been using my Ursack right along.

 

[DayTrip]

I've been using a BearVault Solo for years.

2 pounds!! But well worth the weight because it's a chair, a drum, a washing machine, etc...

And no crumbled crackers or cracked eggs.

I love it!

The few times I did backpack with a bear canister I did appreciate the versatility of using it as a chair, putting items other than food in it for protection, etc. The weight definitely stinks though....