Canon A570 IS?

Anyone have experience with the A570 IS? The reviews say it's hard to beat for the price. The cons are noise at high ISOs and low resolution LCD. This would probably become the main camera and the reconditioned A70 (second time ) will become a backup.

It's a 7.1MP w/ IS for ~$175 (mail order) and low $200s retail.

Tim

It's hard to beat this camera for the price. IS, nice lens, full manual controls, excellent movie mode, AA batteries, potential for add on lenses. The high ISO noise really isn't a big issue, since it's 10x better then your current A70. But unless you go with the Fujis with the SuperCCD all P&S cameras will have noise at high ISO. The low resolution is LCD is a pain, but I use the optical viewfinder for everything except reviewing shots.

-dave-

I was eying the A570 too...

My biggest complaint is the lens only goes down to 35mm eFL. (As usual, I want at least 28mm--the SD800 looks like the best way of getting said lens.)

Doug

I noticed that 28/35 as a negative in a review I read after posting. However, it does have the 4X optical zoom on the other end, which is better than my current 3X...

How much do you really lose between 28 and 35? I find myself zooming some, but not much, as the more I zoom, the grainier and noisier the photos appear (big landscape photos of the mountains, for example.)

Thx,
Tim

bikehikeskifish said:

How much do you really lose between 28 and 35?

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It's a pretty big deal, 35mm isn't really a wide angle lens, 28mm is.

I find myself zooming some, but not much, as the more I zoom, the grainier and noisier the photos appear (big landscape photos of the mountains, for example.)

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Do you have digital zoom turned off? Zoomed in shouldn't be noticably grainier or noisier. Perhaps a little softer, but not noisier unless you don't have enough light since the zoom will close your aperture a bit.

David Metsky said:

It's a pretty big deal, 35mm isn't really a wide angle lens, 28mm is.

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Does this make it a deal breaker then? Sounds like maybe it does.

David Metsky said:

Do you have digital zoom turned off? Zoomed in shouldn't be noticably grainier or noisier. Perhaps a little softer, but not noisier unless you don't have enough light since the zoom will close your aperture a bit.

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I've never used the digital zoom, as it's not any better than PhotoShop, et. al. It's more readily apparent on hazier days. It does not always happen either, so it could be a lower-light problem.

Tim

DougPaul said:

(As usual, I want at least 28mm--the SD800 looks like the best way of getting said lens.)

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CNET's review of the SD800 indicates The Bad: Few manual controls; extremely noisy photos at ISO 1,600.

What I don't understand about the A70 recall is why it happened again. Tech support said it should not, but it appears to be a recurring problem, even in the replacement parts. I'd hate to go all the way to Owl's Head, or have my son's birthday party, go unrecorded.

Tim

David Metsky said:

It's a pretty big deal, 35mm isn't really a wide angle lens, 28mm is. ...

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You are right that 35mm (speaking in 35mm film format terms) is not a dramatically or radically wide-angle lens. But it definitely is a wide angle lens by most definitions.

I'm hesitant to make blanket recommendations as to what focal length(s) a person should buy. We all see things differentlhy and approach the world differently, and what works for me may not make you happy. Individuals should acquire the lenses that suit their own fancies.

But I will say this. Back in 35mm film days, I shot more pictures, day in and day out as a working PJ and recreational hiker with 35mm and 85mm lenses than with any others, by far. And between the two, I'd give a strong edge to the 35mm focal length, which was my walking around default choice. My daily working bag carried wider and longer lenses which got used -- but not nearly as much. I pretty well stripped my hiking kit down to a camera body and those two lenses -- the 35mm and 85mm -- and very rarely found myself wanting more.

While making the transition to digital gear across the last year to 18 months, I continued to use my prime lenses. My widest was a 24mm, which delivered a 36mm fl equivalency. Yes, I wanted wider on occasions (and now have acquired a wider zoom), but also managed to operate quite effectively within the limitations imposed by my gear.

So for me, a minimum 35mm equivalent focal length in the zoom range on a digital camera would not, necessarily, be a deal killer if the system met my desired specs in other key respects.

G.

After speaking with a different technical support rep at Canon (just now), I learned that the flaw is humidity sensitivity in that particular generation of CCDs. I.e., it will happen again every year when stored during hot and humid conditions. His suggestion was to store silica gel in the carrying case while not in use and it may never have the problem again.

As the problem has been known to come and go, I will perhaps try this out for a while and see.

I do really like the $175 price on the A570 IS. The next level up, which offers the 28mm, is in fact the SD800 IS, which uses the rechargeable, proprietary Li-ion battery, which I'm not sure I want to deal with. Then again, I won't have to buy AA batteries for it either, just remember to keep it charged.

I will go try out both at the store some evening and see, I guess. I can't try them out in the WMNF though.

(They are continuing to offer a refurb (un-opened, un-sold, retailer-returned) A530 as a "replacement" deal for $125 + $10 S+H, but you can buy this from J&J for $119.99 with free shipping so it's not a deal at all...)


Tim

The A-series (except for the 550 and 560) have manual controls. They're compact cameras, the 5xx are more entry level, the 6xx series have bigger CCDs for better image quality, 4 AA batteries, and the fold out LCD.

The SD-series is ultracompact, has proprietary Li-Ion batteries, and essentially no manual controls. They're more expensive in general because it's hard to get that much in such a small space.

I've gotten by with the 35mm wide angle lens since I've owned digital cameras. It's perfectly servicable, and wouldn't stop me from buying a camera. But, with the option of getting all that plus a 28mm lens for $100 more then it's worth it to me. BTW, they're the essentially same lens in either camera just mounted closer or further from the CCD. One side effect is that the 28mm version is a little softer, especially at the edge, but I'm willing to accept that.

The trend to more MP on the same sized (tiny) CCDs is just producing more noise without any significant benefit. I don't see any reason to go past 8MP on these small sensors, at least not yet.

David Metsky said:

... The trend to more MP on the same sized (tiny) CCDs is just producing more noise without any significant benefit. I don't see any reason to go past 8MP on these small sensors, at least not yet.

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Great observation. I'm not sure about the numerical limit you propose, but I do get a sense (in reading, and talking with processors who make prints) that quality of the individual pixel ultimately has a huge influence on image quality. More is not necessarily better in this case.

Tim wrote: the SD800 IS, which uses the rechargeable, proprietary Li-ion battery, which I'm not sure I want to deal with.

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If the Li-ion batteries for my Nikon D2Hs are any indication, this is pretty good technology. If you do any amount of shooting at all, I'd recommend getting a second battery so you (almost) always will have a charged-up spare on hand.

G.

I had 28 mm, 55mm, and 135mm prime lenses for my film SLR. If I carried only one lens on a hike, it was the 28. For outdoor landscapes, the 28 did what I wanted. When I got the A75, I found the 35mm min eFL to be a disappointment for the big scenes. (This is all just my style and opinion. Others may reasonably differ.)

Ken Rockwell comments in his review (http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/sd800.htm)

If you do a lot of portraits or prefer the telephoto range, get the SD700. or newest SD850.

If you prefer wider angles, get the SD800.

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(The SD700 has an eFL of 35-140mm.)

I agree, and since I use wide angles more than I use telephotos, I would favor a camera with the wide angle (<= 28mm) lens. Your choice.


I think the pixel race has gotten a bit out of hand (like the GHz race on computer CPUs...)--it isn't clear to me that the small and inexpensive lenses on P&S cameras have adequate resolution to justify them. And, of course, the smaller the pixel on the sensor, the noisier it is. I'm perfectly happy the with 3.2MP on my A75. A number of reviewers have commented that anything beyond 7 or 8 MP makes no sense on the P&S cameras.


As for manual controls... I have attempted to use them on my A75. They are sufficiently hard to use and the user feedback is sufficiently poor that they are, IMO, of little use except shooting a still-life with a tripod. Focus requires you to measure with a ruler, and dial it in on a menu. There is only an aperture range of about 3 stops, so you can't do much with it. I basically shoot everything in programmed auto (P) mode. I can usefully set the ISO and enable/disable the flash manually, but that is about it. Emotionally, yes I want the manual controls (I guess I'm just a frustrated SLR user when I have a P&S in my hands...), but practically, I don't use them.

I would prefer an A-line camera with the SD800 lens. Since Canon doesn't offer one, the SD800 IS might be the best for me. If I am willing to forgo the 28mm eFL, then I would probably choose the A-570 IS.

I would also submit that the IS (image stabilization) is worth having. It will enable you to shoot hand held in several stops less light than without. Ken Rockwell has a nice tutorial on IS: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/image-stabilization.htm.

Doug

At the moment, I only really use Av and Tv (aperture priority and shutter priority) and fully automatic. It would be a bonus to be fully manual (both aperture and shutter manually specified) but it's not required.

Tim

bikehikeskifish said:

It would be a bonus to be fully manual (both aperture and shutter manually specified) but it's not required.

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It's available on the A570.

I know--it's the 28mm which is not

Tim

bikehikeskifish said:

I know--it's the 28mm which is not

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Do you think that Canon will make an A-line camera with a 28mm lens if we beg?

My guess is that they will only offer one after I/you/we have purchased something else.

Doug

They can call it the A570-IS-DP-TL

Tim

DougPaul said:

I would prefer an A-line camera with the SD800 lens. Since Canon doesn't offer one, the SD800 IS might be the best for me. If I am willing to forgo the 28mm eFL, then I would probably choose the A-570 IS.

I would also submit that the IS (image stabilization) is worth having. It will enable you to shoot hand held in several stops less light than without. Ken Rockwell has a nice tutorial on IS: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/image-stabilization.htm.

Doug

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If you are thinking of the SD800 as an alternative to the 570, I can highly recommend it. The IS definitely makes a difference when the light is low, although I think the small size of the camera body dictates that you still pull off a few extra frames when shooting below 1/30 or so to increase your chances of an acceptably sharp shot, as your heartbeat really tosses the little thing around in your hands.The lens is a tiny bit soft in the very far corners when pulled all the way back to 28mm, but other than that it's quite sharp

Now if you will excuse me, I have some brick walls to photograph...

Now where ARE those test charts?

Tim Seaver said:

If you are thinking of the SD800 as an alternative to the 570, I can highly recommend it. The IS definitely makes a difference when the light is low, although I think the small size of the camera body dictates that you still pull off a few extra frames when shooting below 1/30 or so to increase your chances of an acceptably sharp shot, as your heartbeat really tosses the little thing around in your hands.The lens is a tiny bit soft in the very far corners when pulled all the way back to 28mm, but other than that it's quite sharp

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Thanks for the recommendation--I have 2 IS lenses for my XTi and am well aware of the advantage. And I agree that the small cameras are very hard to hold steady. I prop them against a hiking pole or two, or a steady object for the slow exposures.

Both the A570 and SD800 have IS. At this point I think I am favoring the SD800, in spite of the Lion battery (I prefer standard batteries) and the lack of manual controls.

Enjoyed the SD800 pics from your 24hr run--my only complaint is that I would also like to be able to see them without the text in front.

Guess all the Canon gear means that I must be an amateur...

Doug

Tim Seaver said:

... Now if you will excuse me, I have some brick walls to photograph...

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Please say it ain't really so, Tim. I have taken that "Seven Levels" essay seriously to heart, and worry a lot about the brick wall thing. Is noone immune?

G.