Drinking water from snow question

hillman1 · Nov 12, 2004

I have read that snow can contain giardia, and you should melt, then boil it for 3-5 minutes to kill any protozoans that may be present. In the past, I have just melted the snow, and drank it without any problems. Now that I plan on finishing some winter tick lists, I have been thinking about this. What do you guys think? Boil it to be sure, or save on gas and not worry.

bobmak · Nov 12, 2004

I'd play it safe and boil it. Giardia is passed on by animal waste. Chances are that you would be safe, especially if in the woods off a path. But then, since you have the stove out already, it seems like a good idea to just keep it going to a boil. I would say boil old snow and just melt new snow.

Dugan · Nov 12, 2004

I boil partly because of purification. My other reasons are that: 1. at night the hot water can then go into water bottles and from there into the sleeping bag (nothing like a pre-warmed sleeping bag when it's below zero), and 2. in the morning hot water will usually remain as water if insulated throughout the day.

rhihn · Nov 12, 2004

Dugan said:
I boil partly because of purification. My other reasons are that: 1. at night the hot water can then go into water bottles and from there into the sleeping bag (nothing like a pre-warmed sleeping bag when it's below zero), and 2. in the morning hot water will usually remain as water if insulated throughout the day.

Agreed. Also, boil it and enjoy using it as a warm drink!

darren · Nov 12, 2004

If it's not yellow or brown, I've never boilded it. Just melted it and drank away. Never had any problems. Your milage may vary....

- darren

Neil · Nov 12, 2004

What about flowing creeks when it's below freezing? Your filter will freeze after one filtering session. Should you boil or does the low water temp render giardia non-existant? I'm not aware of any studies of either snow or winter sampled creek water.

Nadine · Nov 12, 2004

Ditto. If you've got the fuel to spare though, and you're the type to stay awake at night podering these things, boil it

rhihn · Nov 12, 2004

Neil said:
What about flowing creeks when it's below freezing? Your filter will freeze after one filtering session. Should you boil or does the low water temp render giardia non-existant? I'm not aware of any studies of either snow or winter sampled creek water.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14749905&dopt=Abstract

http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm (Sierra Nevada specific)

http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/hum...l/giardiafs.pdf

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...hapter7.pdf+Giardia+studies+Adirondacks&hl=en

http://www.adirondacks.com/wintercamping.html

mavs00 · Nov 12, 2004

-ALL THINGS GIARDIA- (it's a PDF file) but it has almost anything you really need to know, and some stuff you probably didn't.

Seems that Giardia cysts are pretty temperture sensitive (mostly to the hot side), but below 10 degrees C, things start to go downhill and a thaw/freeze cycle will kill just about all cysts.

Given all that crap, if it's clean top snow, I'd not worry too much. Then again, Giardia dies pretty quick in boiling water and if you throw a little jello mix and vodka in the boiling water, I'd bet Giardia will be the last thing on your mind

Neil · Nov 12, 2004

rhihn said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14749905&dopt=Abstract

http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm (Sierra Nevada specific)

http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/hum...l/giardiafs.pdf

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...hapter7.pdf+Giardia+studies+Adirondacks&hl=en

http://www.adirondacks.com/wintercamping.html

Listen up wise guy, my busy schedule dosn't leave me room to read all that stuff. Besides, like most north americans of my generation I donet reed vary gud. So.. why don't you just tell me plain and simple. Can I drink out of creeks when the ambient temp is sub zero?

Nadine · Nov 13, 2004

I remember from my college microbiology class that there are wee-beasties that live in sub zero temperatures. I can't remember which ones though. Just because it's cold outside doesn't mean all the bacteria are dead.

Pete_Hickey · Nov 13, 2004

Neil said:
Can I drink out of creeks when the ambient temp is sub zero?

Sure you can.

Are there consequences? Well, that's another question.

Hillman1: Giardia in snow? reference? Unles you're talking about snow that is contaminated from groundwater, I don't see how giardia can get there. Polution yes, but giardia? Think of how snow forms.

Doc McPeak · Nov 13, 2004

Pete_Hickey said:
Unles you're talking about snow that is contaminated from groundwater, I don't see how giardia can get there.

When pigs fly ... through the clouds.

hillman1 · Nov 13, 2004

I got the idea from the book How to s**t in the woods. It's a comical look at camping and sh**tting, but it has a serious side, and they mention that the cysts have been found in snow. I thought it was nuts too, I am just wondering what any one persons experience has been. I have never worried enough to boil it, I just melt it and drink. I always try to find clean snow. I know lots of people piss around lean-tos, because they are lazy and cold, so I try to avoid snow anywhere near the lean to. I have taken it from the roof though. You'd have to arc pretty high to go up there...

Pete_Hickey · Nov 13, 2004

hillman1 I know lots of people piss around lean-tos said:
Don't let it bother you. Unless a person has a bladder infection, piss is sterile. You can drink snow mixed with it without fear. Why do you think those new, colored Lexan bottles also come in yellow?

1ADAM12 · Nov 13, 2004

hillman1 said:
I have taken it from the roof though. You'd have to arc pretty high to go up there...

Doug I have made it that high before in case you were wondering

Seriously though I have never had a problem eating the clean snow. If it looks dirty I do not touch it but that is common sense and you seem like a smart guy

Neil I have never had a problem drinking straight out of a stream.....lol but maybe I have been just plain lucky. I try and stay away from areas where I know beaver exist

Happy Trails!

mavs00 · Nov 13, 2004

Neil said:
Listen up wise guy, my busy schedule dosn't leave me room to read all that stuff. Besides, like most north americans of my generation I donet reed vary gud. So.. why don't you just tell me plain and simple. Can I drink out of creeks when the ambient temp is sub zero?

Neil,

I'm so sorry, Let me summerize it for you. You can drink directly from streams, creeks (or any running water) in sub-zero temps, you just have to follow the following guidelines.

Make sure your at least 3-4 miles (at least an hours walk) from the trailhead where the water is likely to be cleaner.
Remove all head covering (balaclava's, wool cap, took's, etc).
Plunge your head directly into the deepest, coldest part of the stream, to get to the "freshest water" (kinda like bobbin for apples)
Then stand still for 10 minutes (leaving the head coverin OFF) while your body's natural immune system destroys any wayward giardia cysts that are all semi-dead from the cold anyway.
Sit back and enjoy the cool, clean refreshing taste of a winter mountain stream.

Bottom's up my Canadian friend

DISCLAIMER - The author is not responsible for any adverse results from following the above advice. But, feel free to let me know how it works out for you.

Neil · Nov 13, 2004

Is Giardia a myth?

http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm

The above article was very interesting and didn't surprise me all that much. (I found time to read it). I kept wondering how closely it would apply to the NE, specifically the ADKs. The people in the water filter business sure won't like that article. As for drinking out of a creek in the near future the article indicates that now is not the best time. The cysts last longer at low temps and fall is when there are more of them in the water. Water only has to be brought to a boil (not even) to get rid of them. It would be a good idea to use that disinfectant soap that dosn't need water after evacuating one's bowels, that is to say, after the paperwork has been handled.

You could carry a small plastic bottle in your pocket in the winter to keep it from freezing.

Dick (resident librarian), can you find anything on water testing done in the HP region?

FWIW, before getting a filter I would drink about a half a quart of water out of streams on an average dayhike with no ill effects and at the end of april last year drank all my water (maybe 5 or 6 quarts) on an overnighter to Bradley Pond LT out of the stream running off of Henderson Mtn by the LT.

And thanks for the info Pete regarding yellow snow. I feel much better now knowing that all those years havn't harmed me!
And Mavs,(ha ha ha! you got me

) we do that all the time here in Canada! Saves the punks money on hair gel!

spider solo · Nov 13, 2004

I'll look forward to reading the various links.
I asked my doctor...he said boil winter stream water...it will be good to see if he was right.

Rick · Nov 13, 2004

I'm with Pete here. I haven't had a problem filling my water bottle with CLEAN snow especially if I am headed up or down a peak and not around a lean-to. (I try to step off the trail 5-10 feet to get it, if possible)

At the shelter I always boil - Why not The stove is out... I also always carry a tiny aquaruim fishnet scooper thingie (1 oz) to to scoop out all those bits of hemlock and spruce that are in the snow and end up in my pot..
(I know, I know it is only fiber, but then again, I never saw them on the ingredient list in Metamucil.....)

Drinking water from snow question

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