3D viewing GPS coordinates of hike overlaid onto of USGS maps?

Being the little geek that I am, I was looking at the possibility of using US Geo Survey coordinate files (DEM files I believe they are called) of the Adirondacks region and viewing (in 3d) the region I'm planning on hiking. I would also like to be able to super impose GPS coordinates onto the 3d terrain to map a hike I've done (I'm not even sure this could be done, since I do not own a GPS...yet).

I was wondering if anyone had tried to do something similar? I've seen similar ideas done, but all in 2d over a topographic map. I'm guessing that if the GPS is capable of saving waypoints with altitude (which shouldn't be a problem unless there isn't a lock on a 4th satellite or something is obstruting the signal...but in any case, if there is no altitude provided, one could default to the ground altitude at the particular XY coordinates), then it'd be easy to map trails over the USGS data and then display it in 3d.

This is probably more of a GPS related question, but do some models offer a feature that would allow them to power up every X minutes (let's say 10 minutes, but I'm not sure if this makes sense as I am unsure how much time it takes to acquire a lock on your position, is there also a timeout value that you can provide to the GPS unit? Power up every 15 minutes, try to get my position within 2 minutes and sleep for 15 minutes, if you can't get a lock 3 times in a row, beep for 15 sec...anyways, you get my train of thought), take a waypoint and then power down.

Thoughts?

Fish

I have a Garmin Etrex Vista. I assume you want your GPS to turn on and off for battery life reasons. My Vista runs for something like 16 hours on two AA batteries so battery life if not a big issue for me, I just leave it on all the time. While on it keeps a log of your every move. Not sure how often it writes an entry, don't know what criteria is uses to tell itself to make an entry. When playing with it in my truck it writes an entry at the least a couple times every minute if not several every minute. I would think while hiking even once a minute would be a pretty accurate representation of your movements. Each entry logs the time of day, speed, altitude, position, bearing, distance in feet since the last entry. Once downloaded to a computer the log can be super imposed on to the topo map to show where you've been. I also used a program that will super impose your trip on to photo images taken from a satellite, sort of cute and shows a birds eye view of the terrain which mostly looks flat though from that altitude. I have yet to figure out a way to make any of this 3D though, that would be pretty cool.

Don't know about the 3D part, but there are commercial and free products that will do what you want.

Just leave the GPS on and record a track. (Turning it on and off will not work as well because it is much easier to maintain a lock than it is to reaquire it. In fact, Garmin's "power saving mode" which turns the receiver on and off every second or so causes loss of lock in the valleys and trees.) The track can be plotted on a topo.

One of the commercial products, National Geographic TOPO! (contains both topo and DEM file data) can produce elevation plots from a manually plotted track or a GPS track. I believe some of the other products can do the same.

Lots of good GPS info at http://www.gpsinformation.net.

Doug

MapTech's TerrainNavigator does something similar. It has USGS quads and a separate elevation data. They don't match exactly but it's appoximate. You can just plot a track either from the pencil tool or downloaded from your GPS and then view it using the 3D view for the elevation.

Jay

We use Maptech's Navigator Pro to plot routes/tracks and upload to a GPS as well as downloading tracks from a GPS. You can then display the profile of the hike and/or a 3D View.

See our latest Trip Report for an example.

I agree. Put Lithium batteries in it & leave it on. If you want to save battery life, wait to turn it on just before the area you need it the most. And always have a spare (new) set of batteries.
In simple terms, are you asking if created waypoints can be uploaded from a GPS onto mapping software? And will they have elevation info?
If so, the answer is yes to both.

Free software

bobandgeri said:

We use Maptech's Navigator Pro to plot routes/tracks and upload to a GPS as well as downloading tracks from a GPS. You can then display the profile of the hike and/or a 3D View.

See our latest Trip Report for an example.

Click to expand...

Hi Bob and Geri,
Nice boots (whoever was wearing the Koflachs Degre ;-). I have to admit I was hoping something a bit different as far as the 3D view goes. The writing on the 3D map really turns me off! I've been looking at this software called 3DEM (http://www.visualizationsoftware.com/3dem.html), which looks fairly good (didn't try it yet as I am at work).

Whoever goes on a hike in the adirondacks that has a GPS, could you record a track of where you go and send me the coordinates file? I'd like to give it a try in this software, but I don't have a GPS hehe. Or maybe someone who's curious could give it a try if they have a couple of spare cycles.

I'll play around with the software in the next couple of days. I'll let you know how it turns out in case anyone is interested (?). Do you know if one could rent a GPS unit (from the Mountaineer maybe?).

Fish

adirobdack46r: I'd be concerned about battery life when using it for a multiple day trips though. Unless, of course, you bring plenty of batteries with you.

My Garmin E-Trex Legend default setting is to record the track automaticly. There are also setting to record a specified time intervals or distance intervals. I use the automatic settings. When I download the track I the filter the data for less points. I use the Mapsource Topo. (the mapsource products are the only commercial product that can load a map into the GPSr.

It appears that Terrain Navigator will work very well for your application. I also have played with Global Mapper software. This software uses the downloadable. I do not have full versions of either so you will need to investigate yourself (or some else will probably give an answer here on VFTT.

EDIT... See while I was typing 3 other answered

I standardized on one form of battery power for all of my gear. Everything I buy for hiking gear must run on AA or I don't buy it, that way all I have to pack is the one size battery. GPS, Camera, Head Lamps......so I pack extra sets. If it is so long of a trip that batteries are an issue I only run my GPS when need be, to check position or if off the beaten path.

You got it!

I waited til they (Energizer) came out with Lithium AAA's. (Just within the past year). Then I went out & bought a new headlamp, flashlight & GPS that all run on AAA batts..
Before that I used 123 Lithium cells. And what didn't run on them, I rigged them to.

I've made 3D images of mountains using Arc GIS (commercial package).
In addition to the DEM files, you will also need raster image files to overlay on them. You can get them here...

http://www.nysgis.state.ny.us/

Hi Rivet,
I'd be curious to see how it one of your images looks like. Is there any way you could post a picture?

Fish

I have the 3D feature on my Maptech Mapping program, but in my opinion it is just a gee whiz feature for those who cannot read topographic maps. The data becomes less readable and distorted. Technology is great, but start with the basics, a sound grounding in map reading and compass use. Any experienced map reader can look at a topo and see the features popping out at them, and there is no technological way to skip this basic knowledge requirement.

John Graham said:

I have the 3D feature on my Maptech Mapping program, but in my opinion it is just a gee whiz feature for those who cannot read topographic maps. The data becomes less readable and distorted. Technology is great, but start with the basics, a sound grounding in map reading and compass use. Any experienced map reader can look at a topo and see the features popping out at them, and there is no technological way to skip this basic knowledge requirement.

Click to expand...

Hi John! You're absolutely right, but maybe I didn't express my needs properly. I'd like to be able to take a look at the topo map and fly around in a 3d world to give me an impression of what the hike should be like. I'm very visual, so it would also help me with my map reading skills. After the actual hike (on which I would take my soon-to-be-purchased GPS), I'd like to overlay my trip on the 3D map.

Sort of a nicer way of doing this, but instead of using a scaled down version of the mountain and drawing the trails manually in a graphics software, use USGS map data and GPS coordinates:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/196922978/197482302VDESMH

Fish

Hikingfish,

A very basic mapping program would be National Geographic's TOPO 4.0 Northeastern USA. ($100.00) Along with TOPO Streets & 3D Views Expansion Pack. ($20.00) You can build a route & do a fly over in 3D. It is basic & not going to be as good as other programs mentioned above, but about 1/3 the cost. If you get a GPS @ EMS, the'll take 20% off the software. I've used it to get an idea of bushwhacks to see the path of least resistance. You won't get a detailed view, but at least an idea.

Maptech

Terrain Navigator Pro is a "cool" professional package. I use it for work. the software will create a 3D fly-by automatically. It doesn't zoom out too far though. The Pro version of the package hooks you up to aerial photos on their server. you can view these as 3D also. I think most areas are $299.95. I use the New England edition almost every day. Mostly for graphical representations. I use more powerful engineering software to create maps. AutoDesk Land Development also has GIS capabilities. I download photos and maps from the states GIS departments to create maps. I do this for some of my hikes too.

I use a Garmin E-Trex Legend. Garmin Mapsource US Topo 24K National Parks, East, Terrain Navigator Pro, New England, and Autodesk Land Devolopment Desktop.

I like maps,

Jim