??? about crampon-compatibility in boots

[MattC]

Yeah, I know, yet another boot-related thread. Sorry.
This is about this business of having a stiff enough boot sole so that crampons do not break or bend. Short of plastic mountaineering boots, what are the options? Is a nylon shank in the sole enough? Is a full steel shank required? I seen where people recommend against using crampons on non-mountaineering boots, but I've also heard of people doing entire hikes with crampons on three-season boots w/ no problems.

Does the type of crampon matter? Obviously in-steps would be easier to support than full crampons, but what about other factors? What makes a crampon flexible or not? I have a pair of Stubai 10-pointers which I have yet to use. As of right now, I'm just hiking in the Catskills, so I may have little or no use for them, but I still want to know about this stuff.

Lastly, it seems like some of the boots w/ very stiff soles lack a great deal of insulation, and vice versa. What's out there that's both warm and crampon-cpmpatible besides plastics? Any information would be greatly appreciated, particularly specs, brands, and personal experiences. Thanks.

Matt

 

[el-bagr]

If you use flexible crampons, you don't need to worry so much about boot sole stiffness. Rigid crampons are fairly rigid; there isn't much flex to them at all. IMO, they are best suited for steep technical ice. For winter hiking and mountaineering, I prefer flexible crampons -- G12s in my case. They allow the crampon to flex along with the boot sole, which effectively stiffens the sole at the same time it lessens the change the crampon will pop off the boot.

I don't know your particular crampon model, but unless they were designed for vertical ice, I bet they're "flexible".

 

[David Metsky]

Flexible crampons (the kind that most people have) will work fine on any fairly robust leather boot. These are designed to flex quite a bit with the boot, so there shouldn't be a problem. I've worn mine on my Sorels, so they can handle most anything.

Rigid crampons, as el-bagr said, are mainly for ice climbing. You will know those by sight, they look like a small ladder, and they don't bend in the middle. They will break on flexible boots, or your feet will break, one or the other.

I use plastics, but there are leather insulated winter boots that are pretty similar. I think they're a great choice for extended trips above treeline and overnights. I'll let others chime in on specific makes and models, as I've been out of the market for some time.

-dave-

 

[tonycc]

I don't know for sure, but can give the advice I have always followed which has worked for me.
- Flexible crampons can be used on fairly flexible boots.
- For boots with partial shanks, the bend in the boot and the bend in the crampon should be in the same location.
- If the boots are too flexible, the crampons are more likely to fail, or their life will be reduced. Twisting of the boot sole and crampon is the biggest concern. The "test" I have followed is to grab the toe of the boot in one hand and the heel in the other and see how resistant it is to twisting. It is amazing how many "hiking" boots have no more resitance to twisting than sneakers.

The comment about using crampons on Sorels fascinates me. I love my Sorels for snowshoeing and general winter use. If I can also use them for when I need crampons that would be great, another option versus plastic boots.

Tony

 

[David Metsky]

The comment about using crampons on Sorels fascinates me. I love my Sorels for snowshoeing and general winter use. If I can also use them for when I need crampons that would be great, another option versus plastic boots.

My Sorels have a hefty Vibrim sole and a plastic 3/4 shank. They're aren't very still by leather boot standards, but I can strap the crampons on for occasional use. I wouldn't use them for extended travel above treeline, but they will do in a pinch. You really can't frontpoint with them at all.

-dave-

 

[John H Swanson]

I use flexible crampons (I think they are green ice) on Sorels and would like to add the following comments about this gear configuaration:

When you desend / traverse steeply, there is a risk that your crampon can pop off your boot. Generally, this happens when the terrain and your momentum is great enough to flex and bend the sole of the boot. I had this happen decending East Osceola and it was an enlightening experience.

As the front part of the boot sole bends, at least two problems can happen.

1) the toe of the boot can pop out of the front part of the crampon. To prevent this, a crampon should be selected where the front two uprights are spaced wide enough to allow the toe of the boot to be sufficiently far forward to be well contained. 1/2" was not adequate for me.

2) as the toe flexes, a space is created between the heel of the shoe and the heel of the crampon. The heel of the boot can lift out of the heel of the crampon. This problem can be corrected by selecting a crampon with a heel bail (wire between the two heel uprights) Adding a heel bail to the crampons worked well for me. I used an old bicycle spoke.

JHS.

 

[shadowcat]

boots shanks

just another thing to keep in mind: steel shanks get a lot colder that nylon shanks .

 

[MattC]

Thanks for the info and advice, gents. Between this and some things I picked up from friends and store clerks, I feel better informed.

Matt

 

[Jay H]

Grivel G-10s and Montrail Torre GTXs

OK, thought I'd just tag along this thread (thanks Matt) I am looking at 10pt crampons, I know the G10s are well talked about here, they are a semi-rigid crampon... I have a pair of Montrail Torre GTXs and only have some 6pt CM crampons. I'm looking at the G10s based on user reviews and stuff. Called Campmor's Climbing counter and the guy told me that he wouldn't even recommend semi-rigid crampons on boots that you can flex from toe to heel. But in either case, they seemed to be almost out of the 10pt strap on crampons anyway. Anybody use the G10 and the Torre combo, does it work well and how long have you used it?

Thanks,
Jay

 

[adkphoto]

I have a set of Grivel G10s which is a flexible 10 point crampon. I absolutely love them and have had great success with them on Sorel style boots as well as my leather hiking boots over the last 5 seasons. No bent or broken points, or falling off the boot. The binding system is elegantly simple and can be attached or removed with mittens on. Instep crampons can't compare to the comfort and safety of full crampons.

That being said, I should point out that I only use them in general mountaineering.... hiking with limited front-pointing. If you intend on doing significant amounts of front-pointing, you definitely need a stiffer platform and crampon.

David

 

[Jay H]

Thanks David, that's interesting. One of the reasons I am buying the 10pts is to do some icy ledges where you may have to do a lot of front pointing. So far, I've managed OK with catskill trailed hikes but figure winter bushwacking and winter icy bushwacking ledges in the catskills would call for the front points, at least 10pters...

Jay

 

[coldfeet]

Jay, I was at Tent and Trails today in the city (NYC) and they had the G10 strap on's I think for $100..their phone # is 212- 227 -1760.. The back didn't fit on the heel of my nf boot and i wasn't going to start bending them..I probably have a summer boot and not a 3 season without even knowing it..this stuff is really confusing and a pain. I'm going shopping in the mountains and not next to the subways!

 

[Mttop]

Stubai should work well for you.Just make sure they fit your boots well than comfort with them on should be your next issue.The more flexable the shank the more you will feel the presure from them and the bindings.12pt crampons typicaly have longer front points for technical climbing and are thusly harder to walk in without stubing or shreading something.A strap type binding will most likley fit your winter hikers.I hike in my technical climbing boots.Scarpa Freney,they have a solid carbin/fiber shank,Flex well in the ankle and have primaloft insulation.Work great with any ofmy crampons when its cold out and when its warmer I wear my Vasque sundowners and G-10's.