Advice on the trail...no thanks!

[catskillclimber]

I just read a trip report where the climber was once again sizing up people on the trail, "wearing sneakers and cotton sweat pants. Ugggh!" I have been lectured for hiking in jeans, not carrying enough water, cotton t-shirts and every other thing that the peak baggers can throw at me (while I'm on the way up and they are elated to be coming back down). Is the hiking community becoming to pretentious for it's own good? My wife and I hiked Slide on a day when there was no possible way either of us would post-hole (we do wear snowshoes when needed by the way) and some guy had to say, "you know if you wear snowshoes you won't put holes in the trail." I explained that the trail was hard packed and there were no holes being left but he persisted until my wife looked as if she was going to plant her trekking pole somewhere unpleasant so I gave him a wink and we moved on. Please, everyone out there in VFTT land, remember that people hike because it is healthy, fun, and sometimes intensly personal. Don't size people up on the trail like you're in a bar and offer advice because they did'nt spend $300 on Gor-Tex. This is for everyone. Thanks for reading my b@#*%ing.

 

[Chip]

I agree.
People have been hiking the tough stuff for 50,000 years and did just fine before gortex and double plastic boots.
Canvas, cotton and leather have made it to places I never will.
While there will be times where people try something they are unprepared for, we should be there to help, not critique.

If I'm warmer and dryer, hurray. It does not diminish what Wrangler and Converse have accomplished that day.

 

[jade]

If you require a rescue because you headed out unprepared, you could be billed at a rate a lot higher than $300 AND put any number of rescuers at risk. Sure some people can be pretentious but I would say by far the majority of comments are more out of concern for your safety than anything else.

........Jade

 

[mudhook51]

Go with whatever you're comfortable with as long as you don't put others on the line.

 

[Peakbagr]

I don't look down on folks over gear. I do have my own thoughts as they pass if they are ill-equipped for where they're at.

Tourists starting the ascent of a high peak at 3pm.
Hikers with dress shoes or heels.
T-shirts and sneakers on the way up Algonquin in April.
Cotton jeans and shirt in rainy, foggy, weather with temps in the 30's and 40's, far from the trailhead.

If the conditions, time of day, and apparel suggest ignorance, is there a moral obligation to check and see if its a case of don't know any better, or they know, and and just don't care. Big difference.

As far as I'm concerned, you can wear whatever you want. Its not always being a gear snob, and it doesn't have to be $300 Gore-Tex to have clothing that is weather-safe. You can wear a $12 pair of Dickies poly pants and a cotton-poly t-shirt with a garbage bag rain suit. The fact that I'm nearby, though, means my party is probably going to be involved in getting their sorry asses out of a jam if worse turns to worst.

 

[afka_bob]

I might be interesting to see how many are killed (or threatened) by cotton and how many "equipped" folks get into trouble. Looking back over posts here concerning rescues or untimely demises, how many gore-tex clad "veterans" get into trouble?

In those cases, whose asses are sorrier?

How many sorry cotton-clad asses have you had to carry out, by the way?

Are these the mythical "welfare moms" of the oudoors?

 

[pedxing]

Amen! From now on, I will tell everyone I meet how foolish it is to give unsolicited advice,

 

[Holdstrong]

Mythical welfare moms of the outdoors?

 

[mommabear]

I find that the more I go hiking, the more stuff I think I need. As in so many other things, I will never be perfect and there will always be something I could do better. I have to agree with catskillclimber. I've gotten my share of "warning" comments from people that did nothing more than annoy me on my hikes. Just the same as in everyday interactions, I try to be careful before I think about criticizing or correcting someone. I've never met anybody that has intentionally ventured out unprepared and very rarely (although it has happened a time or two), have I had to take time out to help somebody else. When I do, I'm not annoyed. We all learn at different rates and we all have different levels of experience. I'd rather share my love of the woods than act like people need to jump through multiple hoops to share them with me.

 

[caleb]

I just read a trip report where the climber was once again sizing up people on the trail, "wearing sneakers and cotton sweat pants. Ugggh!" I have been lectured for hiking in jeans, not carrying enough water, cotton t-shirts and every other thing that the peak baggers can throw at me (while I'm on the way up and they are elated to be coming back down). Is the hiking community becoming to pretentious for it's own good? My wife and I hiked Slide on a day when there was no possible way either of us would post-hole (we do wear snowshoes when needed by the way) and some guy had to say, "you know if you wear snowshoes you won't put holes in the trail." I explained that the trail was hard packed and there were no holes being left but he persisted until my wife looked as if she was going to plant her trekking pole somewhere unpleasant so I gave him a wink and we moved on. Please, everyone out there in VFTT land, remember that people hike because it is healthy, fun, and sometimes intensly personal. Don't size people up on the trail like you're in a bar and offer advice because they did'nt spend $300 on Gor-Tex. This is for everyone. Thanks for reading my b@#*%ing.

Unless you feel under-equiped or are in some other way unqualified to take up space in the great outdoors (do you have a warrant out for your arrest or are you a litterbug?) I would suggest honoring yourself by toughening up and figuring out a way to not let the a-holes get you down..Life is full of them, especially here in the crowded rat-box of the NE. So don't let them in your head. A helpful trick for this that I use (try to) is to build a habit of positive disposition towards ALL the folks I come across in whatever I'm doing, a practice that seems to yield the return the same positive spirit. When it doesn't work out, when I get a turd thrown at me instead, I don't seem to react or take it personally as much, as I'm able to see the turd as the true aberation it is, something that has nothing to do with me. Good luck. If you seem to be faced with an oversupply of aberations, you could always move to New Mexico....fewer rats in the rat-box so people are nicer. It's true. C

 

[MEB]

Unsolicited Advice---I get it all the time and for the longest time I thought it was because I was a girl. It mostly comes when I'm out by myself or with my sister.... for the most part I don't think people are out giving it to make you feel bad about what you are doing or wearing but sometimes it just comes across the wrong way and I have to bite my tounge to not say anything. For example my sister and I were out one day and she was naming off the mountains she recognized and there was a gentleman nearby listening. He came over to us and told proceded to tell her she was way off and that we should not have gone out without a map and that we could borrow his. I was a bit miffed about his attitude toward us and his assumption that we would go out without a map...so I kindly told him we had one and I let his comment slide off my shoulder. I'm sure his intentions were other than how it came across to us. Other times I have to be careful about the advice I listen to....this time I was skiing and my feet were wicked cold so I went into the lodge to warm them up. I got all sorts of advice about what socks to wear...that sock is too thick, you should wear a liner, your boots don't fit you right and what not. Then one guy came over and suggested I sprinkle pepper on my feet. He claimed that the chemicals in the pepper would cause my feet to warm up quicker and that as a ski instuctor he told his students to do this all the time. Ok....so I did...the joke was on me! My sister made fun of me for the rest of the day and my feet never warmed up!

-MEB

 

[John Graham]

I do not agree that because some unsolicited advice is foolish or unwarranted, all unsolicited advice is. The reknowned ADK Ranger Pete Fish was well known for doing just that, after all it was he who was going to have to respond to any emergency that arose as a result of hiker unpreparedness. He was the first one I heard use the phrase cotton kills, and having helped carry out a cotton clad hypothermia victim last month who susequently died, I would have a hard time disagreeing with this point of view.

There is certainly a degree of posturing and pomposity in some comments we hear along the trail and some patronizing comments can be made to project superiority rather than offer sincere advise, but to reject any unsolicited comment as unethical is ridiculous.

 

[afka_bob]

Mythical welfare moms of the outdoors?

Uh, yeah.

 

[MattC]

I try to avoid generalizing things like this, and really feel it's a case by case basis. There probably are people who will offer advice simply to show off their own "expertise" and inflate their egos. If they are doing this due to sexism, it's particularly appalling. There are almost certainly many others who have sincere concern for someone they observe to be unprepared.

There are definitely recorded cases of problems and deaths due to inappropriate or insufficient clothing or gear-it's not just a myth. For example, I recall a report of a death by hypothermia in an old (early 90s) issue of Adirondac. The guy had been wearing a t-shirt, jeans and cotton sweatshirt in the High Peaks area in April. He was caught in rain, and had also been postholing in deep snow for over a mile. Last fall Pete Fish gave a talk in Poughkeepsie and he shared many SAR anecdotes which involved unpreparedness, some with grim outcomes. This stuff does happen.

The case on Slide that Catskill Climber mentions sounds like the guy not only was giving uneeded and unwanted advice, but also persisted to the point of being really annoying. But if someone is truly putting themselves (and/or others) in danger, I think it's appropriate to advise before things become irreveresible.

Matt

 

[wally2q]

Danger - you could get killed!

... more people get killed on sidewalks, than in the mountains. I've seen people wearing sandals and shorts while walking on the sidewalk one time. I told them that if they had to dodge a car when it came flying through the intersection, the sandals would cause them to trip, and when they fell, they'd scrape their knees - they should have worn sneakers and long pants! I just can't believe all those ignorant sidewalkers out there! Instead of thanking me for my kind comments, they told me to "$@&% off". How rude!

I am of the opinion that every adult can look after themselves. The only time I would get involved is if I saw ill prepared kids or an adult with ill prepared children. And even then, there is etiquette in how you come accross: which would you prefer to hear: "You better had brought something warmer than that!!" vs "I heard it's pretty damn cold up there today."

the wall........

 

[Maddy]

If you require a rescue because you headed out unprepared, you could be billed at a rate a lot higher than $300 AND put any number of rescuers at risk. Sure some people can be pretentious but I would say by far the majority of comments are more out of concern for your safety than anything else.

........Jade

Well said Jade.
As someone else said "we all learn at different rates."
I am very grateful if someone shares something useful with me and I hope I can reciprocate by sharing some of my knowledge with others.
Some will listen and others won't but if we do it in a courteous, concerned manner we might just make a difference.
I firmly believe that no matter who you are if you endanger others as a results of your poor choices/irresponsible behaviour, you should be held accountable and have to pay up.
When all else fails, $$$$ talks!!!

 

[Artex]

A lot of the time, it's not so much what is said, it's how it's said.

 

[Rivet]

I just read a trip report where the climber was once again sizing up people on the trail, "wearing sneakers and cotton sweat pants. Ugggh!"

Umm, before this gets out of hand and since it was my comment, I thought I would post a quick note. If you read what I wrote, I said I SAW this couple. I said hello to them and that was about the end of it. I did not lecture them. I could really care less if their feet were soaked and they were having a miserable time. I am not a gear snob, but I think that at least boots would be needed on a winter hike.

 

[Warren]

I don't go up to a stranger and start throwing out how to's or what to do's but hanging in a lean to or camp that sort of thing does come up.

I do size someone up by looking at their gear, among other things- how comfortable they look, the sureness of their steps and footing. Gear can be indicator of financial status and style, preparedness is a collection of things.

As often as the stereotype of jeans and t shirt may ring true with what we see on the trail it really is a stereotype.

I gotten sarcastic or rude statement made in passing, "postholer" or a comment on a too small or too large pack. I generally take it as a sign of their upbringing, rudeness or a need to feel superior. If they wanted to be helpful, they would have approached me in a more helpful manner instead of throwing a statement out in passing or in response to a hello. It's only happened to me in the adks now that I think of it.

 

[giggy]

funny - something similar was said to me recently - I was carrying snow pickets on a trail that does not need them by any means. I had them becuase I wanted to practice snow anchors for an upcoming trip - above treeline if the conditions were good. Most people were just curoius why I was carrying them and I said basically for 2 reasons 1) get used to carrying all the gear I will have on the trip and 2) to practice a variety of snow anchors in different conditons in safe places. . Most people were just asking why - in a curious way - but there are always a few jackasses who have to be smart and say it in a way that they try to make you feel inferior, stupid, and like to you don't know what your doing. Screw em'

Advice is always nice and I love getting it and giving it - but when its said in a "certain way" - yea it can be enough to tick ya off. If someone is in sneakers and cotton - I don't think it is bad to give some freindly advice to them. Like someone said - its how it is said.