Altimeters & the 100 Highest

[onestep]

Q: What does one do when they complete (allmost) their 4000 footers?
A: Set their sights on the NE 100 Highest!

How esential is an Altimeter for bushwacking the trailless peaks of the NE100 Highest? I've read so many trip reports that refer to using an altimeter that I'm curious if I "need" one. I have a GPS that displays altitude. Will that suffice?

 

[onestep]

oop's... maybe this belongs in the Q&A forum?

 

[vtlukekultv]

if your gps unit has altitude on it, then you could call it an altimeter as well. there's no reason to go spend $300 on an altimeter watch if it's already on your gps. i don't know how the accuracy would compare, but i'm sure it's pretty damn good.

luke

 

[bobandgeri]

We only have two bushwacks left of the NEHH - Elephant and Fort. A GPS, along with a Map and Compass are all the tool you will need. The toughest Bushwack on the NEHH (in our opinion) are Scar Ridge followed by Peak above the Nuble due to the thick spruce and blowdowns that you will encounter. We plan to hike Elephant (in Maine) either April 16th, or 23rd depending on the weather and condition of GEri's ankle, if you want to join us.

Maps with the routes we took are on our web page for most of the non-NH48 peaks/bushwacks that are part of the NEHH.

http://rbhayes.net/hike.htm

 

[DougPaul]

How esential is an Altimeter for bushwacking the trailless peaks of the NE100 Highest? I've read so many trip reports that refer to using an altimeter that I'm curious if I "need" one. I have a GPS that displays altitude. Will that suffice?

Can't speak for the NE100 in particular, but an altimeter can certainly be useful in bushwacking. Enables one to do such things as "follow this feature (eg stream, ridge, gulley, trail) to some altitude, then vector off in another direction. Or follow some contour. Also very good for "how much farther to the peak" both on and off trail.

Altitude from a GPS is a mixed blessing--the short-term errors are greater than the position errors when signals are good and even worse when the signals are bad (eg in valleys and trees). A barometric altimeter avoids these problems, but, of course, must be calibrated at known altitudes. A GPS-auto-calibrated barometric altimeter may be the best of both worlds. (I auto-calibrate mine during the drive up and it generally reads within 10 ft of the published altitude of peaks.) Of course, if you are using a GPS altimeter, you can "cheat" and use the GPS to determine your position directly...

While electronic altimeters are popular these days, a purely mechanical one has no batteries to fail on you.

BTW, the error number shown on the GPS (EPE=estimated position error) is based solely upon the satellite geometry and assumes perfect signal conditions. Reasonable when you have an unobstructed sky, otherwise take it with 100lb grain of salt.

Doug

 

[skiguy]

While electronic altimeters are popular these days, a purely mechanical one has no batteries to fail on you.

Doug[/QUOTE]

I would certainly echo this sentiment.
Relying on batteries in general wether its is in a GPS, cell phone, or a watch for that matter is invitation for trouble. Not to say that some of these instruments are not helpful but I would practice and perfect my skills of the analog world first. I find the simpleness of mechnical devices to be part of the "RAW" feeling of being in the outdoors. A barometric altimeter can also be a useful tool for weather forcasting.I always like bringing along a tool in the outdoors that serves more than one purpose; it helps justify the weight of even having the piece of gear in the first place. I did the N.E. 100 without an Altimeter. Map, Compass, and keeping track of where you are from the time you first hit the trail is far more useful than an Altimeter. If you are talking about the bigger Mountain ranges of the world, especially Glacier travel, then I would gladly entertain the use of an Altimeter and or GPS.

 

[HikerBob]

I carry the Brunton ADC Summit gadget. Got it mostly because I wanted to know how cold 'cold' was and how windy 'windy' was. It also incorporates a barometric altimeter and weather predictor.

I have found the altimeter useful but accuracy is very weather dependent. If the relative atmospheric pressure is stable then accuracy is pretty good. If a front is moving through forget it, I've had it become hundreds of feet off. I usually create a map with Topo! before a trip and mark known altitudes at distinguishable landmarks such as river crossings and trail junctions, this helps determine accuracy on the day and allows for re-calibration.

Bob

 

[Papa Bear]

I have a Suunto altimeter and all I use it for is to see how much elevation gain have done on a peak climb. I've never considered it particularly "essential" for navigation. As for GPS, I don't own one but have hiked with those who do. Never has one of those been "essential" either. I did elephant with 2 hikers who both had GPSs. I did fine with my map & compass as they were discussing why their unit's weren't getting a signal etc. Once (on the east side of Owl's Head) I lost my map (it was stolen out of my pocket by a fir tree ) but I was still fine with my compass and my memory of the map.

Get a gizmo if you want to play. Learn to use your compass and learn to read the lay of the land if you want to bushwhack.

And Bob (Hayes): you certaiunly won't need much help from anything electronic when you do Fort or Elephant. But please bring your GPS anyway, 'cause I love those maps you make.



Pb

 

[Sherpa John]

Altimeters and GPS during the 100 Highest?! Way to take the spirit out of it eh?!

Just use a GPS

 

[mafogle]

The spirit of what?

I consider an altimeter (mechanical) an essential piece of gear for navigation, especially when bushwhacking, just like a map and compass.

Would you go out, bushwhacking only with a GPS, and without a map and compass?

My Altibaro mechanical altimiter weighs only 3oz.

Sure, on most trips you won't need it. But, really how often do you use your map and compass on a day trip up a 4000 ft'r? My map and compass usually stay in the pack, and come out only at the summit to identify nearby points of interest. The point is that it's there when you need it.

-Martin

 

[Sherpa John]

Yes.. I have seen fellow hikers go out on a bushwhack with a GPS and/or Altimeter and no Map. It probably happens more than you think.

Personally I do not own a GPS or Altimeter and I carry 2 maps and 2 compass's with be on EVERY hike even a lollygager to Franconia Falls. I am also trained in the martial art of Orienteering. Never know when the batteries are going to run out and need it.

I also have been on quite a few hikes this winter with folks who also carry no GPS or Alt. and they wear a compass around their neck.

To each his own on the subject though. I had a conversation with Deane Morrison once, he was one of the 1st five to have completed the 100 Highest and he told me then that when they did it there was no GPS or Altimeters and if he had it his way... it would remain that way.. hence the "spirit of it," Personally I'll do the 100 highest the same way they did it.. Map and Compass.

Eitherway is fine, no way is better than the other.

 

[audrey]

Map and compass is all I've needed. The altimeter has been useful while pursuing the 3000 footers with elusive summits, to verify where I think I am. Never will bother with a GPS, but I've watched others have lots of fun with them so I don't begrudge them (they make route-finding look so easy that it must be cheating! ).

It's also important to remember not to lose your equipment! At various times I've lost my map and my reading glasses. I've also distrusted my compass, and the altimeter has occasionally misbehaved. It took a few years to learn to avoid all these stupid errors.

 

[DougPaul]

Remember, once upon a time, people wandered in these hills without paper map or compass. They are just tools. As are altimeters, GPSes, cell phones, radios, guidebooks, lists, beta, and weather forecasts.

If one wants the challenge of the old with the security of the new, one can always leave some of the tools in one's pack unless one gets into trouble.

Commonly called "carrying your security in your rucksack" in the technical climbing community...

Doug

 

[mafogle]

Deane Morrison must have meant digital altimeters, mechanical ones have been around a very long time.

The thing that I like about an altimeter, that you can't do with just a map and compass, is fix your location without triangulation. Triangulation requires a clear field of vision which is not always available, especially in our eastern forests. With an altimeter you can usually fix your location by finding the crossing of a contour line with a geographic feature or trail. This is more or less difficult depending on the particular terrain, quality of maps etc.

This ability is most valuable when bushwhacking, when you've left all fixed reference features, like trails, behind.

A GPS will do all the same, and keep a tracklog, digital bread crumbs, of where you've been. I like that I can download the tracklog to my PC and overlay the actual route taken over a digital topo.

I love my Garmin, but there's always the problem of batteries.

-Martin

 

[RoySwkr]

Count me as someone who feels that you don't need an altimeter or GPS. I have had a cheap altimeter show Mt Tom as 4500', and a hiker-grade GPS reading rise 800' during a snack break, so don't trust either implicitly.

Deane Morrison must have meant digital altimeters, mechanical ones have been around a very long time.

Yes, some people who hiked in his era used aircraft altimeters which cost ~$70 which was more money then, and prone to breakage from shock as after your airplane crashes, who cares? Others used less accurate hiker models. You could get a surveyor altimeter with 2' accuracy but they cost several hundred dollars and I don't know a hiker who had one, the maps aren't that good

With all due respect to the other posters - GPS are quite reliable and useful in the backcountry, and can no longer be dismissed as a gadget.

With all due respect to Mr. Rooney, there are times with poor satellite coverage and areas of gorges and spruce where you'd better have a compass and know how to use it. Having batteries go dead may be the hiker's fault, but hikers can't control where the satellites are I've never had a compass fail to point the right way in spite of warnings about magnetic rocks. Even better - bring a large dog that can find it's way home

 

[percious]

I'm with the map/compass folks. Dependence on batteries is lame. (Although I do carry headlamps with me) I have only hiked with someone 1x that had a GPS. Seemed to me we were using the GPS like a crutch. If we made a wrong turn, we would just check the GPS and get back on track. Didn't seem like much fun, but we did summit two difficult peaks. Without GPS we maybe would have gotten one.

-percious

 

[John H Swanson]

Do you need an altimeter, no. Do you NEED a compass, frankly no. Do you need a map, well if you know where to start, and you go uphill, probably not.

Yes even for the NE 100 highest. But all of these things assume you have a very good brain, and very good navigational skills. Would I actually do them that way? Consider this. Study your anticipated route on the map in detail for 30 minutes them put away all your "tools" and do the hike with just your brain and your woods sense. It's a NOLS exercise, and a good one at that.

That said, an altimeter is really nice. I've owned 5 different ones over my hiking life. My preference is my Suunto that I always almost wear it for trailed and trail-less hikes. Though I rarely find my self using it unless I'm off trail.

After years of experience, I really do not need the altimeter as I usually determine elevation quite accuately by terrain association. Meaning reading the lay of the land comparing it to the topo, thus determining my position on the map and reading the elevation. It is fun to do this and then read the altimeter to see the different readings and see which one is closest to the truth.

It's even more fun to determine your position on the map by terrain association, then plot your UTM coordinates, and compare them to a GPS reading. Though I do not own a GPS, I've found it interesting so see how close I can get to the reading. And of course being able to plot your GPS coordinates on the map is a good skill to have too.

Then there are situations where an altimeter is an awesome tool. Like above tree-line navigation in limited visability. When you have multiple segment navigation that requires turning at given elevations, the altimeter makes it a no brainer. And I have found cold weather error can be quite predictable when using the old mechanical altimeters. Give me my old Thommen, a $10 compass and a 7.5min quad and I am more comfortable in a winter white out then swimming at the beach.

JHS

 

[Peakbagr]

John,

I have(had) Peet's temperature compensated altimeter and used it for years. When we moved last year, its somewhere is the new place, but after looking high and low, have not found it. I know the second I order a replacement, the older one will turn up.
I thought your post was interesting. I love to glance at the altimeter on a trail or bushwack. On a trail, the altimeter becomes a fun thing to guess or confirm elevation, and thus, almost exactly where you are.
On a bushwack, the terrain and the altimeter can do the same, or map features plus elevation locks it in.
I always reset mine at the start, and if a weather front is arriving or departing, re-set it at a known place(benchmark, summit, stream crossing, trail intersection) during the hike. The barometer feature can often forecast the arrival of weather, and the speed of the change can tell you how drastic the change will be. If your summit elevation rises dramatically during your stay on top, you know you're in for bad weather. A drop usually means good weather is on the way with a high.
My Peet was usually within 20' +-.
Really like the Thommens, but for me, the face is a little busy.

 

[Sherpa John]

I've never had a compass fail to point the right way in spite of warnings about magnetic rocks. Even better - bring a large dog that can find it's way home

Ever whip your compass out on the summit of hale?

 

[DougPaul]

Ever whip your compass out on the summit of hale?

<sarcasm on>
Giggle, giggle...
<sarcasm off>

Sometimes, just having a repeatable direction indication is adequate even if it is inaccuate.

Every one of the naviagtion/safety tools (maps, compasses. altimeters, GPSes, cell phones, radios, guidebooks, lists, beta, and weather forecasts) has failure modes.

It is the job of the hat rack mounted on top of your neck to integrate the sources of information and come up with a reasonable conclusion. Easier if you have redundant sources with independent failure modes.

Doug