AMC Executive Director pay
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arghman
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well... perhaps, but tourism jobs aren't really something that brings a lot of pay to the North Country... i've spoken to some planning folks in the area and they need more "real" jobs. Though I guess the service sector (plumbing/electrical/etc.) benefits slightly from any new operation in town. hopefully they get a lot of their supplies locally... if not then most of the $$ going into the place would just go back out to regional/national corporations :/
dentonfabrics
New member
I agree with most of Tut's post (especially the part about the Sox). But the reason why Andy Fallender get $300K to run the AMC is because his business skills and contacts and efforts bring in much more than that. How do I know that is true? Because if it weren't true, he'd get canned (or he'd be making much less). Even tho the AMC is a non-profit, it still operates within the guidelines of a capitalistic economy. Morals has nothing to do with it. It's business.
king tut
New member
Ha! Sorry about that one. I woke up early this morning, my brain was in a fog. He would still be over priced in left field or center. Not relevant to the conversation though, so please no one respond to my stupidity.
I agree with dentonfabrics about him bringing in more than what he makes, that may be entirely true. Maybe he is worth the money? If he brings in twice as much money as the guy who would command 1/2 his salary, then maybe it is a deal. Personally, i just like to know that when i donate or give money to a non-profit that isn't just going to fund some exec's new ski villa or European vacation. Non-profits should be set up to make a difference and change society in a positive way. If it is a non profit that pays a few large salaries by charging high fees for luxury hiking accomodations, then i think something might be a little off in the system. I have no problem with them being a money making machine in a capitilistic world, but i would just prefer that they pay taxes like any other organization instead of disbursing their income out via large salaries. May be a moot point. It just seems similar to a bank being registered as a non profit, but paying their execs large salaries. Seems like a loophole to me.
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If the budget numbers are to be believed, hut operations, in general, break even. Money from the huts isn't going to anyone salaries except the people who work there.
king tut
New member
Do they post their financial statements online to the public? I would be curious to take a look at them and see a breakdown of their expenses.
In my mind, it just doesn't compute how you charge $50-$100 for a night stay at a hut multiplied by the average number of people at a hut at given night (maybe 20-100 people) and only breakeven when you are paying a couple of college kids maybe $2,000 for a summer each to do all the work. I am not railing on them, i am just curious to see the numbers. I dont care a lot on the issue seeing as i dont stay at the huts or participate in anything AMC related.
Epic Shakedown
New member
^Beat me to it. Here it is in a snapshot: http://www.outdoors.org/pdf/upload/08-ann-report.pdf
Make sure to disregard all the highlights about climate change research, trail work, urban and rural youth school programs, Roach Pond area protection, introducing people to outdoors, 'green' awards for Highland Center, MA Enviro Bond Bill, wind power efforts and active volunteers and chapters. Instead look for one detail you don't like and get yourself in a tizzy.
Make sure to disregard all the highlights about climate change research, trail work, urban and rural youth school programs, Roach Pond area protection, introducing people to outdoors, 'green' awards for Highland Center, MA Enviro Bond Bill, wind power efforts and active volunteers and chapters. Instead look for one detail you don't like and get yourself in a tizzy.
Stan
Well-known member
I, for one, have never felt that people who work for a non-profit must take an oath of poverty but I can fully understand how those amongst us who have taken such a pledge can be a bit resentful of salaries that are commensurate with skills, experience and supply and demand.
smitty77
New member
Don't be fooled, even businesses that pay taxes pay only a fraction of what you and I do on their profits due to various tax rules and loopholes. Warren Buffet admitted that he pays less in federal taxes than his personal secretary, and the guy just bought a railroad.
Come on, how many here have taken an oath of poverty? And I would expect that those who HAVE done so did it for reasons that would not make them resentful of those who have not.
And I just have to say that if you think 300K is a high salary for someone running a multimillion dollar organization then you are on another planet. Show me another organization at the same level with a top exec making a lot less than what Andy Fallender is making, and I'll eat my hat.
I also have issues with the AMC, but this is far from one of them.
What many of you may not know is that when AF was first hired, the AMC was seriously in the red. I recall an article in Appalachia about it. They continue to run the organization in a fiscally responsible way, and that is to be commended (see annual report on other posts). The AMC does a lot more good than bad IMO, and like many here, some of my dearest friends are people I met through the organization.
No problem if people don't want to support it. Just don't fall into the easy trap of trashing something you really haven't investigated.
Stan
Well-known member
Not me, that's for sure ... unless you count my catch and release method of wealth accumulation.
Tom Rankin
Well-known member
There are certainly lots of other expenses.
Food, propane, and 'air support' come to mind. As we all know, helicopter time is pretty expensive!
J.Dub
Active member
There are certainly lots of other expenses.
Food, propane, and 'air support' come to mind. As we all know, helicopter time is pretty expensive!
"Help, I'm stuck in a bash AMC/pay for SAR/dogs on the trail/global warming message board Mobius strip!"
smitty77
New member
There are certainly lots of other expenses.
Food, propane, and 'air support' come to mind. As we all know, helicopter time is pretty expensive!
I was thinking about this too. Many moons ago, my dad helped the caretaker at Nauman tentsite carry an empty propane bottle up to the hut and I was a little amazed at the number of bottles in storage - there were at least a dozen. The helicopter bill to supply the huts and other backcountry sites must be enormous, and I'm sure the food bill is a close second.
They've made a serious effort in the past decade or so to reduce the number of "flies" into the huts, I think they're down to two per season from three. They store full propane bombs at the huts over the winter because their last fly of the year would be empty going in otherwise.
Huts near Mont Blanc charge $70 a night and they fly supplies in and out almost every day.
sweet video, taken by me
Little Rickie
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Do they hike the food up? That's gotta be tough.
I know they hike food into Johns Brook Lodge, some 60-70 lbs, but that doesn't have much elevation.
TCD
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I don't know why, but from what I understand heli operations in general are much less expensive in Europe. I spent some bucks last year having a hot tub craned in to a site where it couldn't be carried in. The guy from the hot tub outfit said that almost all the hot tubs in Switzerland are heli'd in, and that because they have so much volume of work it adds very little to the cost...
Tom Rankin
Well-known member
Yes, they do. But for Lakes, they hike it DOWN from the summit of Mt. Washington to the hut!
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