Backcountry xc-ski in n-east

[Sherby]

Hi,

I'm looking for suggestions for trying out backcountry xc-skis (E99) this winter in the northeast. As we are working out the 3k's, closed roads approaches would certainly be an interesting option.

Thanks.

 

[Becca M]

Hi! Some of us are pretty experienced finding good trails to XC ski on - there are ski-specific trails available and many hiking trails can be skied - with good snow

If you give us a little more info, we can be more specific!!! Like, what kind of bindings do you have for the E99's? How far do you want to go out and back? Loop? Elevation? What do you carry for safety? Do you want to use skimobile trails, etc.

I learned by trial and (lots of) error!!!! --Becca

 

[dug]

http://www.amazon.com/Backcountry-Skiing-Adventures-Hampshire-Snowboard/dp/1878239643

Start with this. One thing I've found is there is a fine line between unbroken trails, and broken in "too much". Meaning, some of the backcountry trails, old fire roads etc. are nice since you generally have a nice swath to use, but you have to obviously work much harder on your way up. The ride out is nice, but quick. Conversely, skiing a more popular trail (i.e. like Garfield), while it has a nice wide trail (it's an old road), so much snowshoe traffic can make the trail like a standing luge run. The ski up is easier, but it can get interesting on the way out.

 

[Chip]

FWIW: Got an email that Bretton Woods has free skiing today. Limited trails, but anyone who wants some early season practice, this might be an opportunity.

 

[Stan]

Maine Huts and Trails currently has four backcountry huts and 50 miles of groomed trails stretching from the Carrabasset Valley to The Forks. I know of no 3000 footers accessible from that route but the Bigelow Range is nearby between Poplar and Flagstaff huts. http://www.mainehuts.org/

 

[peakbagger]

Plenty of 3 Ks accessible by skis in northern NH but the trade off is that most of the good cross country ski routes are snowmobile routes so you need to put up with a haze of two stroke oil and dodging sleds coming up from behind or coming head on around a corner. The groomed sled trails make for nice skiing but most folks avoid them due to the other uses.

 

[Sherby]

If you give us a little more info, we can be more specific!!! Like, what kind of bindings do you have for the E99's? How far do you want to go out and back? Loop? Elevation? What do you carry for safety? Do you want to use skimobile trails, etc.

Actually we have only the skis and I'm currently trying to figure out if nnn-bc or 3 pins bindings would better suit our needs. We have some downhill experience, but we certainly don't have the motivation/ambition to learn telemark.

We have done many long winter day hikes in the past two three winters, so we are more interested in day-long trip. I don't mind about skimobile trails if skiers are welcome, I guess some ME HH and many 3k could be approached in such way. In fact, when we did our winter BSP 4ks, our friends had skis for the approaches on the tote road and it partially explains our motivation to give it a try.

 

[Becca M]

Actually we have only the skis and I'm currently trying to figure out if nnn-bc or 3 pins bindings would better suit our needs. We have some downhill experience, but we certainly don't have the motivation/ambition to learn telemark.

We have done many long winter day hikes in the past two three winters, so we are more interested in day-long trip. I don't mind about skimobile trails if skiers are welcome, I guess some ME HH and many 3k could be approached in such way. In fact, when we did our winter BSP 4ks, our friends had skis for the approaches on the tote road and it partially explains our motivation to give it a try.

Hi! I assume you will be hiking in your ski boots? (Most boots say, "NOT FOR HIKING" - but you can usually put them into snowshoe bindings - like MSR's). I started with NNNBC and switched to 3-pin (on same skis) - switched boots to leather 3-pins that I can winter hike in so they're pretty warm.

Skiing is WAY better than walking tho, not super-fast - I average around 4mph.

 

[Dana]

I recently switched from 3 pins to NNN-BC (along with new steel edged skis and much better boots) and would not want to go back, the control is that much better. OTOH, 3 pins are simpler and may be more reliable, which could be an issue if you're deep in the woods.

XC isn't anything like downhill, though... spend some time on local trails before tackling anything ambitious.

 

[Becca M]

I recently switched from 3 pins to NNN-BC (along with new steel edged skis and much better boots) and would not want to go back, the control is that much better. OTOH, 3 pins are simpler and may be more reliable, which could be an issue if you're deep in the woods.

XC isn't anything like downhill, though... spend some time on local trails before tackling anything ambitious.

I had snow/ice jamming in the clamp system on an NNNBC binding whe I was deep in the woods (5 miles in) after I had to take them off and put them back on - could not get them to close on the toe bar - really scary but eventually did after I chipped out the ice with a sharp knife using cold fingers. This happened several times. That's why I switched - 3 pin is more reliable in my opinion. Good control for me.

 

[AMF]

I recently switched from 3 pins to NNN-BC (along with new steel edged skis and much better boots) and would not want to go back, the control is that much better. OTOH, 3 pins are simpler and may be more reliable, which could be an issue if you're deep in the woods.

Interestingly, I have gone the opposite way. Started w/3 pin, went to NNN for the simplicity, now back to pins for better control. So your take home here should be whatever you choose will work. If you haven't bought boots yet, I would start with finding a pair that are comfortable and durably constructed and choose bindings accordingly.

 

[MadRiver]

Rather than post a new thread I’m going to jump in for a quick question. I’ve been a down hiller for all my skiing life and I am slowly switching over to XC. I’ve rented your standard XC skies at the WV Nordic center for a few trips but do not like the thin skies that do not have metal edges. My plan is to get proficient enough to either ski into Zealand Hut with a Pulk, or to finally do a winter Baxter trip before death over takes me. Any suggestions would be helpful. P.S. my knees will not take Telemark. I will just monitor this thread and hopefully your suggestions to Sherby will be helpful to me as well.

 

[Brambor]

well, you are probably used to the control you get with your downhill skis metal edges. Let me just say that xc and bc skis with metal edges will still not give you the same feeling of control you are used to with your downhill skis. It will still feel more like xc skis. The differentiator is the softness of your boot. In downhill skiing the large and heavy plastic boot is able to drive the edges. The softer the boot the less control.

 

[MadRiver]

True on all counts, I just find the thin skies too thin for my taste. I would prefer something a tad wider like BC skies. WV doesn't rent them so I will look elsewhere before deciding what to buy.Thanks.

p.s. Through I understand the control issue; I do not expect to be careening down the side of a mountain with reckless abandon as I might carving up a black diamond in my Rossi. I’m just looking for a little more stability as I’m pulling a pulk along a BC trail. Thanks again.

 

[Maineman]

After eleven winter Baxter trips, including a traverse of the park I feel anything more than skinny waxless X/C skis are overkill. There is little of no turning involved and the trips you mention are primarily on roads.

I understand that people love their gear but metal edges are unnecessary for Baxter or Zealand. Just more weight to drag around.

 

[David Metsky]

NNN-BC is great if your main goal is to tour; ie, travel distances mainly using kick and glide without any major ascents or descents. 3-pin (especially with cables and moderately stiff boots) will give you significantly more control for descents at the cost of greater weight and a bit more effort. Since my goals usually involve climbing for turns I use only 3-pins of various weights and stiffness. But if you're looking for long tours (like across the Pemi) then NNN-BC or SNS-BC might be a better call. Another issue with NNN/SNS is that the bindings tend to ice up and many of the boots are difficult to walk in if needed so they're not quite as versatile as a Vibram soled 3-pin boot.

I have two light backcountry setups. The first is Fischer E99s with Rottefella SuperTele bindings: basically straight skis with minimal 3-pin binding. They're excellent for long distance travel at a fairly high speed. They cruise on the flats and climb pretty well, and in a pinch I can tele in them but mainly they are snowplow skis. The other setup is Fischer Outtabounds with Voile 3-pin cable bindings. These skis are wider and shorter so they're more maneuverable, the binding has a cable so I get much more lateral support, and the skis have sidecut so they are much more turny. I can tele on these quite well in good conditions and they're my go to ski if I am looking for descents.

I have other, heavier tele specific skis that I use for some types of backcountry but it doesn't sound like that's what you're looking for.

 

[Sherby]

Do you think that the Rossignol BC X-6 75mm boots would be a good choice ?

 

[MichaelJ]

I have a Karhu Pyxis with 3-pin bindings + cable which while I personally have yet to use them in Baxter, were described to me by a season Baxter veteran as the perfect Baxter ski. Control, width, edges, and heel lifters for the climb from Roaring Brook up to Chimney Pond (which needs a sturdier ski than the Tote Road).

I personally dislike skinny edgeless xc skis once I'm off xc-specific groomed terrain and onto completely ungroomed or partially packed. Many of the places I've skied in the Whites consist somewhat of snowmobile routes, so that's what I mean by packed.

I also have a pair of Fischer Outbound Crowns, which area nice because despite being metal-edged, they're skinny enough to use on groomed xc trail in the tracks without damaging the tracks. However, what happened to me was that I put 3-pin bindings on them, and they tore out. When I talked to someone at a more competent ski shop he told me that while being an excellent ski, it's simply not built to handle the torque of a 3-pin binding. I will eventually put NNN-BC or SNS-BC on them and use them for touring. I think they'd be perfect for pulking into Zealand. I would want the Karhus if I were trying to pull a pulk into someplace steeper.

One other important difference between these two makes of skis: while both are waxless, using a fish scale pattern for traction, just like a bellybutton the Karhu skis are "outies" while the Fischers are "innies." In other words, the fish scale pattern protrudes beyond the surface of the rest of the Karhu ski, while the pattern is carved into the surface of the Fischer ski. The net result is the Karhu has more traction and the Fischer correspondingly glides better.

 

[Brambor]

I could see BC used on the way to Zealand but for Baxter Perimeter road I agree with Maineman.

Baxter Traverse from Trout Brook to Roaring Brook over hiking trails - I have never done but if I was to be invited to such trip I would bring my Karhu 10th Mountain BC skis.

 

[Dana]

Are the NNN-BC setups suitable for tele?

I'm currently using Rossignol BC-X5 boots with Rossi BC65 edged skis. They're a night and day improvement over my old gear (1970s vintage Trak skis with 3 pins and low leather shoes), but nothing like downhill gear, of course. I ski mostly local hiking trails and while the new skis are great most of the time, there are still lots of ups and downs where I'd like more control (or where I have to take the skis off and walk down). I'm hoping this year to take the skis to a local lift served ski area and play with them on the beginner slope, to get a better sense of what they're capable of without running into a tree along my narrow trails.

I also have a pair of the Swiss army skis with Fritschi bindings (more like AT gear) that Sportsman's Guide was selling cheap a few years ago. Never used them yet because I don't have suitable boots for them.