BC Ski advice

[DLhiker]

ski gurus:
Please educate me on issues surrounding Back country ski length. How do I know the righ length for me? What is at stake if I go longer or shorter than optimal?
Thanks!

 

[spencer]

A lot depends on what you want to use them for. If you'll be out touring on backcountry roads and wide trails that are relatively flat, you'll want something that is kind of long and narrow.

If you are interested in downhill performance and turning, you'll want something wider with metal edges. There is a whole spectrum of "backcountry skis" from edgeless, narrow, touring skis to short, super-fat telemark skis.

Tell us what you want them for and lots of folks will pipe in with great info!
What kind of skiing will you do, how much experience do you have, etc?

in general:
wide skis float better in powder
short skis work better on narrow trails
shaped skis turn better
long skis track better (go in a straight line for touring)
waxless skis (those having scales) are easier
waxable skis perform better uphill and downhill but can be a pain

spencer

 

[DLhiker]

more info

Thanks for the reply. here is some more info on what I ahve in mind.

I would be using these skis on ADK hiking trails for the most part. Not looking for telemark downhill, etc... Example: Ski to Slant Rock, switch to snowshoes and climb Haystack.

My experience in BC is novice. I've done some XC and lots of downhill.

 

[JimB]

DL, this is the type of skiing that I do and there are many different types of equipment that you could use. A lot depends on how much you want to spend. I would suggest a search on this site for BC ski equipment as a great place to start. This was discussed a lot over the winter. dave.m has some great links to his website that you may find helpful. Check his post under "Shopping for BC equipment" on 1-26-04 for some links. Good luck, JimB.

 

[DLhiker]

Thanks, I have already read Dave's entire site. It was very helpful (I've also emailed him my question).

Basically, my issue comes down to this: I found a really great sale locally on Fischer Outbound Crowns--they have only a few pairs. The little Fischer chart shows that I woudl take a length of 189, but they only have 178. Is the length difference critical? From what I've read so far, it sounds like going a bit shorter would only help me on most ADK trails.

 

[audrey]

Absolutely, go for the shorter length. The only advantage that longer buys you is if you need the length to keep from sinking too deep in powder. We should all be so lucky!

Especially on hiking trails, twists and turns in the trail, snags, steeping over brooks, etc., are easier to negotiate on shorter skis. Ski-"whacking" is also more fun when you don't catch your tips on trees as much.

 

[el-bagr]

I don't know the ADKs at all, so I'm not sure about a ski to Slantrock, but from what I've heard, a lot of ADKers use skis on long, gentle approaches to the mountainside. You also said you don't want to telemark and that downhill performance isn't important. Based on all this, I recommend light waxless touring skis.

I don't think the shorter length on the Fischers you're looking at would make much of a difference. Of course, I am not a large fellow, but skiwhacked and rode trails for years on 190s. With skis, more literally than with lots of outdoor opinions, "your mileage may vary".

 

[dave.m]

DLHiker,

It really depends on the *kind* of bc ski you are talking about. You will size a skinny double cambered trad ski (E99 or similar) differently than flat cambered 90/70/60 type of ski.

For double cambered skis, size according to your weight per the manufacturer's advice. Here is the link to Karhu's advice:
http://www.karhu.com/gear/tech/13.html

NOTE: if you want a shorter double cambered ski, change the style and go for a compact design. In general, shorter compact skis will be more maneveurable but not as fast while gliding.

For flat cambered tele and alpine skis, weight, height and preferred downhill skiing speed are key. In general, the faster you like to ski, the longer you will like but this really depends on the ski. Shorter skis will maneveur better. Longer (and wider) skis will float better.

My trad nordic skis are in the 220 - 210 range.

For trail skiing, I find anything 200 cm or less is ok for side stepping and herring bones. The 210s are more work.

For woods skiing, I prefer to keep length at or under 180cm.

For lifts, I'm currently skiing a 188 but that has more to do with the ski than anything.

I'm 6'2" and 185 for comparison's sake.

Hope this helps,

Dave

 

[dave.m]

Just Read Your Second Post

DLhiker,

The Outbound is a relatively narrow ski (70/60/65). IMO, this type of ski is well suited for trail skiing but not wide enough for tree skiing (unless you are way good).

IMO, a 189 is plenty short for trail skiing. I regularly ski on 198s for trail skiing and find I can easily side step on all but the tightest trails.

The one place where you will find the 178s better is when you need to make a snowplow on the downhill.

But, if Fischer is saying a 189 for your weight, you should expect that the no-wax base will constantly drag in the snow, creating a pretty slow ride.

If you are on the lower end of the weight range, the effect will be less noticable.

Hope this helps,

Dave

 

[DLhiker]

Another question

Dave, your BC web site is awesome and very helpful. It is the only one I could find that answered some of my most fundamental questions. I'm pretty much using it as my guide as I look for gear.

Here is another question...

I bought a pair of Voile HD 3 pin bindings. Any trick to mounting these myself, or must I go to a pro shop? I found this link for directions on doing it on my own--looks pretty straightforward to me. Binding mount instructions


BTW, I was able to get out last Saturday for a day of BC skiing--really my first day full day of giving it a serious go. I used some old Swiss Army Surplus skis I picked up a while ago (from Sportsman Guide) with a universal binding. They way a few lbs. each, but have a wildly engineered binding that pretty much does it all. Did my best to wax them according to directions. It was awesome. by the end of the day, I was really seeing progress! I've been winter hiking for years, but I feel like I'm discovering a whole new dimension!

thanks for your help

 

[dave.m]

DLhiker,

First, you are very kind about the web site. Remember, bc touring is a world of comprimise, which means personal preferances count huge. What is posted there are *my* personal opinions, which reflect *my* prefs, which in turn, may or may not line up with yours. Grain of salt, and all that!

Some quick thoughts on mounting pins...

1) Power tools and skis are a good way to ruin things fast. Consider taking them into a decent shop. While the shop may or may not do a good job, they will probably pay for their mistakes if they make them. ;^)

2) You need to decide where to mount the binding in terms of fore/aft position. Pins on cord center or pins on balance piont are the norm for xc type skis. The (very good) advice on the Telemark Tips web site if for downhill oriented tele skis. Which you should follow depends on whether you skis are more like xc skis or more like tele skis and if you are more interested in striding or turning.

3) The next trick is to get the pins mounted straight. I do the following:
* Mark the pin line on the ski with a pen (sharpie).
* Mark a second line 1" forward of the pin line. This marks the line on for the foreward mounting screw.
* Measure the top deck of the forward mounting line and mark the center. Double check this mark several times. This marks the exact location of the forward mounting screw.
* Press an awl into the top deck to create a small pilot hole. Once an accurate pilot hole is started, give the awl a sharp tap with a hammer to set the pilot hole (divot, really).
* I use a 5/32" drill bit to drill the hole. Before drilling, I wrap a wad of electrical tape around the bit to create a stop to keep the hole to a depth of about 3/8". Hold the drill straight and use a light hand, especially if the ski has a metal layer in it.
* Screw in the forward mounting screw to be snug but not tight. You want to be able to twist the binding for the next step.
* Place the boot in the binding and ensure that the pin holes are properly seated on the pins. Line the boot so that it is straight on the ski by twisting the binding using the forward screw as the axis. Verify the alignment of the boot by checking that the boot heel is located over the center of the ski.
* Carefully remove the boot from the binding using care to make sure that the binding doesn't move. (It sometimes takes me a couple of tries.) When the boot is removed, carefully mark the center point of the rear binding holes with a pen. I generally repeat the boot alignment steps at least one more time to verify the positions of the holes.
* Remove the binding by taking out the forward screw.
* Do a sanity check of the marks for the rear holes. They should be 1" apart from each other and the line connecting them should be 2 1/2" aft of the forward screw hole.
* Once you are feel comfortable with the location, drill the holes per above.
* Fill the holes with glue. I use Shoe Goo or Carpenters Goo. Some folks use Carpenter's Elmers or epoxy. I think the critical thing is to create a watertight seal. I find expoxy problematic when/if you ever need to remount. Others swear by it.
* Screw in the screws. Use a #3 Phillips, or better a #3 Posidrive tip. You want the screws to be as tight as possible without stripping out the holes. This is a good place to ruin things, so be careful.

Hope this is helpful.

Dave

P.S. I've updated the web site to include more information on bindings and mounting. Thanks for the feedback!!
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html