Crampons: Step-In vs. Strap-In

[Carmel]

After going to about five hundred gear stores from RI, CT, MA, and NH I've about had it looking for crampon compatible leather boots! I have found a hundred different variations of sandals, pack boots, and even UGGS with no luck on good non-plastic boots. Why gear stores have more UGGs and boots i'd use to shovel my driveway than hiking/mountaineering boots could be another thread altogether. If people are sucessfully hiking in UGGs and they are working out awesome, let me know...

Today someone mentioned to me that his step-ins dig into his heel through his plastics and recommended the regular strap in crampons. And, I have noticed that they do make strap in crampons with less straps than they used to, making it much easier (so you can put them on without your fingers freezing off).

I'm thinking about giving up on the crampon compatibles and just going for a nice sturdy boot that I can use the strap-ins with.

Has anyone had bad experiences with the step-ins? I think I almost might need the opinion of someone who has had both (maybe not).

Should I ditch the idea of getting them because its too hard to find a good boot and that doesn't weigh ten thousand pounds?

If this has already been discussed four hundred times, i really do appologize, I did do a search, but i couldn't get the answer i was looking for!

 

[sli74]

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10287&highlight=crampons+step+strap

Here is one thread that discusses this and I will try and find you others.
As I told you this weekend, I really like my new-matics which are a hybrid of the strapon and the step-in. It is easier to find heel bails on boots. I suggest them.

The straps are pretty easy to work once you get the hang of them, practice putting them on in the warmth of your home so you get used to them. Find a comfortable boot and pick the crampon to fit them, not the other way around, the boots are going to make the differnece between a great trip and a bad one.

sli74

 

[Carmel]

Thanks Seema!

i couldn't find anyone mentioning the crampon digging into the heel in the threads I read about this subject when I did a search (although I may have been reading too fast and missed it)?

I'm wondering if anyone else has the "crampon digging into the heel" problem or if it was just that one person?

 

[bobandgeri]

Ditto!

We have both stepin and strapon crampons.

The stepin's are quicker and easier to put on and can be put on with gloves on, but only work on our Koflach boots.

The strapon's take longer and require more skill, but work with both our plastic and Columbia boots.

If you are not going on overnight trips a good Winter boot like the Columbia Ice Dragon will keep you as warm as the Koflachs. NorthFace makes a similar boot - they both fit differantly - one is wider than the other.

Start with a good boot - then go from there.

 

[Carmel]

looks like your advice is leading me to go with the strap-ins...finding a crampon compatible boot that is semi-comfortable is going to take a lifetime!!! No one sells them!!!!!! (at least not in March!)

=O)

Thanks!

 

[Kevin Rooney]

The 'digging into the heal' problem might be related a type of heel strap Grivel occasionally uses, but without knowing the name/model of the crampons, this is a bit of an educated guess:

I've noticed that occasionally Grivel uses a 2 piece rear heel strap on some models of its step-ins. The two pieces are joined by a large rivet, and this rivet is large enough to create pressure point on a soft boot. If this is the problem, just make sure the step-in you purchase uses a solid strap, and I think you'll lessen the chances of this happening. Grivel changes both the heel and toe straps from time to time, including color - sometimes black, sometimes yellow.

Having said this - keep in mind that you need a relatively firm boot to keep your foot comfortable. A crampon places a fair amount of stress on your boot/foot, and needs to be secured snugly. While I've seen crampons which quite literally can be secured to sneakers, I personally wouldn't want to use them for more than a few hundred yards!

 

[sleeping bear]

looks like your advice is leading me to go with the strap-ins...finding a crampon compatible boot that is semi-comfortable is going to take a lifetime!!! No one sells them!!!!!! (at least not in March!)

=O)

Thanks!

I've got a pair of Columbia Ice Crushers and BD Contact Straps, they're a perfect match. The BDs fit pretty much every pair of footwear I own, with the exception of my down booties .

 

[Daniel Eagan]

The 'digging into the heal' problem might be related a type of heel strap Grivel occasionally uses, but without knowing the name/model of the crampons, this is a bit of an educated guess:

I've noticed that occasionally Grivel uses a 2 piece rear heel strap on some models of its step-ins. The two pieces are joined by a large rivet, and this rivet is large enough to create pressure point on a soft boot. If this is the problem, just make sure the step-in you purchase uses a solid strap, and I think you'll lessen the chances of this happening. Grivel changes both the heel and toe straps from time to time, including color - sometimes black, sometimes yellow.

My wife and I had Grivel G-10's that were a sort of hybrid step-in/strap-on. We both had that heel problem, with the rivet digging into the heels of our boots. We contacted Grivel, who repaired the problem for free (minus postage) by reassembling the heel with the rivet facing outside. The company said the problem came from the way retailers were assembling them in stores.

That was a few years ago, and since then the crampons have worked perfectly. What I've noticed is that my heels are more prone to blistering while wearing crampons for a long time, probably due to the extra weight pulling on the boots.

I wear them with Scarpa midweight hiking boots without any noticeable wear and tear. I usually have to tighten the straps a few times during longer hikes, especially with a lot of up and down. The step-in part is convenient enough so that I would get them again. Hope this helps.

 

[linehant]

Buy a comfortable boot. Then buy a crampon that works with that boot.

IMO the step-in vs. strap debate is over-done. I have and use both. Step-in should be faster to put on, but, in the field, the reality may be different. If you have to clear the boot's toe groove or heel platform of accumulated ice/crud to get the step-in mounted securely, then there may be zero time savings over a strap-on. And, really, we're talking a difference of a few seconds here, not minutes.

You'll be able to find a crampon that works well with virtually any boot. So the primary criteria should be to find a boot that fits comfortably. THEN choose the crampon.

And don't get hung up on the step-in vs. strap-on debate. I can afix my CM S12s (full strap) to either my Lowa plastics, or my LaSportiva leathers in almost the same amount of time as my partners need for step-ins - sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less. And I do so while wearing mittens or gloves.

 

[Dugan]

I got a pair of Grivel G-10's with the heel strap rivet problem years ago. I promptly wrapped several turns of duct tape to foam to pad out the rivet. This thread is almost enough to tempt me to unwrap them and reverse the rivet.

I opted for strap-ons originally because they were more versatile. They'll fit a larger range of foot wear. I can speak only for the G-10's when I say that with practice, attaching them is not a difficult chore and can be done with handwear on.

Be patient with a boot search - I have 3 pairs of leather or cloth/leather boots that are step-in compatible. They are all comfortable for every day hiking. Now that I have the footwear, I'm considering a pair of step-ins to go with them.

The boots are all from Sierra Trading Post over the years: Asolo, Technica, and Trezeta.

 

[Mike P.]

I love my New-Matic hybrids, on the rare occassion that a crampon is recalled, it's usually because of a problem with the front bail. This is not an issue with new-matics.

I have found these to by much quicker & almost idiot proof for putting on my boots too. Initially I had strap ons & after trying to get them on my boots & getting cold hands I forgot about even trying to get them on. I have found that I can put the New-matics on wearing glove liners & wind-bloc fleece.

For me, it's a no-brainer. Besides I don't hike in the winter with my summer boots.

Sincerely,

My village's idiot.

 

[weatherman]

Being a total idiot, and needing something that is as close to idiot-proof as possible, and having very little manual dexterity to begin with, that only decreases near treeline when it's cold, I like my plastic boots with step-in crampons. Easy as putting on downhill skis, except of course when I stab myself with the crampons when putting them away after they're needed .
Weathemranmennjskjlds

 

[erugs]

Buy a comfortable boot. Then buy a crampon that works with that boot...And, really, we're talking a difference of a few seconds here, not minutes.

I totally agree with this statement from Linehant. My friend Brian and I had an interesting crampon experience recently. He was wearing his plastic boots as he was planning to use his "quick-to-put-on" step-in crampons. I was using his strap-ons (G10s) because I had mistakenly left mine at home. I had them on and was ready to go well ahead of him because his crampons had tangled together like a blacksmith's puzzle and it took many minutes and a few curses to separate them.

My other crampon suggestion: I bought what my friends were using so that we had spare parts to share and product familiarity if needed.

 

[Mad Townie]

Carmel,

I have a pair of Charlet-Moser step-ins that I use with both my plastics and my leather Limmers. Of course, the Limmers weigh almost as much as the plastics!

Seriously, there is some weight saving and I've had no problems getting the crampons to stay on. I use the leather boots in spring and fall, when I'll need crampons up high but don't want the weight of the plastics on the trails and don't need the extreme cold protection they give me.

Makes me a "happy camper."

 

[Bob Kittredge]

What's an UGG?

I wear Charlet-Moser (how is that pronounced, any way?) strap-ons with my Columbia Excellerators (insulated, non-plastic, non-pac boots). With a little practice it doesn't take more than two minutes to put them on. No problems with balling (yet).

 

[Carmel]

Ugh!

UGGs

These are UGGs, some Holleywood diva wore them on MTV once and now they are EVERYWHERE, including gear stores ALL over (and they are incredibly expensive, normally $160)...Last weekend, I saw more variations of UGGs in North Conway than I did of crampon compatible boots...much to my frustration!

If I wanted to have a fashion show, I would be hitting up Bloomingdale's...not EMS!

 

[bill bowden]

Crampon compatible leather boots

I believe you are referring to insulated leather single boots with a rigid instep and groves front and rear to take a step-in crampon. Montrail Moraines are a good boot of this type and La Sportiva makes another Makalu?). These guys are both stiff and heavy; not impossibly so, but a shock to the unsuspecting.

Plusses and minuses of strap-on vs. step-in crampons are complex. Flexible strap-on crampons are necessary for use with flexible boots (otherwise the crampon will break at the most inconvenient time and place) Keeping the crampon on the boot can be a real chore although the new Grivelle and Alpina bindings are better than previous efforts.

With a rigid boot, either plastic or leather above, the strap-on crampon will stay on although requiring some effort to strap on. The step-in crampon is easier to put on a rigid boot but won't function with a flexible boot. There was a recall not too long ago on a make of step-in crampon which had examples of the bail (the metal part fitting into the groove on the boot) failing and giving a nasty slide/fall with injury.

Best of luck in your search but outdoors shops are pretty fashion conscious and I'll bet you need to wait until about august because they are all featuring spring/summer gear now.

 

[MadRiver]

Apparently UGG’s are the footwear of choice among college students as well as pink TNF vests. The two warring camps of footwear among our students at QU are UGG’s and six inch stiletto heels. I have no allegiance with either camp.

 

[shadowcat]

Boots for Crampons

Hi
If you are still looking for a comfortable boot that will accept crampons you may want to try the Salomon SM Lite Mountaineering Boot. It is very comfortable & takes semi-auto crampons. They have them on sale right now at Sierra Trading Post for $99 (Reg $200 and I do believe they are insulated too). Of course winter is almost over but hey ....
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/358,72273_SALOMON-SM-LITE-MOUNTAINEERING-BOOTS-For-Women.html
They also have the SM Expert which does take the fully auto crampon. but then you will also have the really stiff sole which I find puts more strain on my feet but I have foot problems too - others they don't bother.
They must have just bought out someone's over stock of Salomons bec they also have the Ice Trek which is a really nice winter boot you would wear the strap on type crampon with. The price is awesome, only $56! (usually like $170)
I have a pair of Salomon Pro Ice I purchased for an ice climbing class. I can use these for winter hiking when the conditions call for crampons bec you can remove the stiff support for your ankle that you use when climbing ice. they are pretty comfortable but that really stiff sole (they use a fully auto crampon) does wear on your feet. All of these are the lighter versions vs plastic boots.
Of course new models are so much better but of course you are talking over $300-$400 for boots & that's pretty expensive.
They have a pretty good selection of sizes left in those 3 styles if you are still looking.
I've also worn the Lasportiva Glacier which is pretty comfortable also- I've seen that on sale often but it's not insulated.
Good luck

 

[darren]

From her original post, Carmel's real question is "has anyone here had problems with step-in crampons"?

I had pretty much talked her out of strap on crampons. In case there is any confusion, I'm talking the real deal old school strap on crampons:

These are the crampons that I've been using for well over 10 years. From experience, I can say that strapping them on in the cold is neither fun nor fast. I defy anyone to put them on with gloves on. At least in less than half an hour.

One time should have put my crampons on and I didn't just because it was so cold that I didn't want to take my mittens off. Well, I had a nasty fall and dislocated my hip. It popped back in, but that was one nasty hike out! So, my hatred for strap on crampons began...

Anyway, Carmel's hands are always cold so that is why I was telling her that she should get step in crampons. It looks like she is scoring a pair of Salomon Super Mountain 8's for super cheap money. So she could get full on step in crampons or the new hybrid new-matic crampons:

I'm guessing the new-matics are sort of the best of both worlds and the way to go.

As for me, I think it is time to retire my old strap on units. If she is getting new crampons then I have to keep up!

- darren