Roxi
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carole said:
Exactly! I'm with you Carole!
There is nothing FUN about climbing Everest, ask anyone who's done it. Challenging yes. Fun no. I hike because it's fun and when it stops being fun, I'll do something else.
Everest Attempt for VFTT'ers?
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Exactly! I'm with you Carole!
There is nothing FUN about climbing Everest, ask anyone who's done it. Challenging yes. Fun no. I hike because it's fun and when it stops being fun, I'll do something else.
truepatriot09
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I'm 30, married with a baby. And you're right, Beck Weathers suffered more than he should have. He was a victim of poor decision making by his guides. Had both groups led by Rob Hall and Scott Fischer turned back at the designated turnaround time in '96, the tragedy would likely have been avoided. But ego's and poor judgement came into play and what happened, happened.
I hate to keep bringing him up but when you look at a climber such as Ed Viesturs, who has a wife and three children, and has turned back 300 feet from the summit of Everest as well as abandoning climbs due to poor conditions, or simply because they weren't fun anymore; it proves to me that it's possible to climb responsibly, to make the endeavor fun and to still be a family person who indeed cares about their loved ones.
You are 100% right, people shouldn't take crazy risks when they have others who depend on them. But just because one person thinks an activity is a crazy risk doesn't mean that to another it's just for fun. I know people who think that I hike and climb in winter is a crazy risk...whereas 99.9% of those on this board would never think that. I hope that anyone who engages in outdoor pursuits comes home unscathed; but I also hope that people do take risks, and feel the invigoration of fear once in a while...life wouldn't be much without testing your limits from time to time.
I guess the reason I said what I did is that you touched a nerve by judging folks who choose to climb high and mooshing them together into a self-centered lump. I just don't believe that's true.
I hate to keep bringing him up but when you look at a climber such as Ed Viesturs, who has a wife and three children, and has turned back 300 feet from the summit of Everest as well as abandoning climbs due to poor conditions, or simply because they weren't fun anymore; it proves to me that it's possible to climb responsibly, to make the endeavor fun and to still be a family person who indeed cares about their loved ones.
You are 100% right, people shouldn't take crazy risks when they have others who depend on them. But just because one person thinks an activity is a crazy risk doesn't mean that to another it's just for fun. I know people who think that I hike and climb in winter is a crazy risk...whereas 99.9% of those on this board would never think that. I hope that anyone who engages in outdoor pursuits comes home unscathed; but I also hope that people do take risks, and feel the invigoration of fear once in a while...life wouldn't be much without testing your limits from time to time.
I guess the reason I said what I did is that you touched a nerve by judging folks who choose to climb high and mooshing them together into a self-centered lump. I just don't believe that's true.
Gris
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No, i did not say everyone one who climbs period is crazy. i just said most of the people who climb Everest are, yet i even recognized an exception there for guides/pros-types. your view actually sounds very, very much like mine. we both even keep coming back to Beck W as our example. maybe neither of us is grim or misguided...
sapblatt
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It is simple for me...I am a hiker - not a mountaineer! Love reading about the stuff, but it is not for me - and I do like winter hiking...
sleeping bear
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That's the fun of this thread- if you didn't have loved ones to worry about, and could afford the time and money was no issue... For most of us, it's pure fantasty. Being married I would never go, besides the fact that I could never affrord it. Interstingly enough, I posed this question to my husband and he said he'd go too...
Anyway, just because someone has a family and has the cash, doesn't mean they can't make the choice to go. I don't think it's a matter of thinking that you can beat the mountain and make it out alive, or believing that you will make all of the right decisions, "it won't happen to me". That might border on delusional, since it's proven fact that bad things can and do happen to anyone up there. Accepting the risk, knowing that something bad might happen, and being prepared to deal with the consiquences, even if it means dying doesn't make you delusional, stupid maybe. Maybe it is self centered or selfish, which is why in the first post it was stated that there would be no family issues. It's about overcoming challenge, risk and completing goals, which I guess is ultimately a very personal and self-centered thing.
Anyway, just because someone has a family and has the cash, doesn't mean they can't make the choice to go. I don't think it's a matter of thinking that you can beat the mountain and make it out alive, or believing that you will make all of the right decisions, "it won't happen to me". That might border on delusional, since it's proven fact that bad things can and do happen to anyone up there. Accepting the risk, knowing that something bad might happen, and being prepared to deal with the consiquences, even if it means dying doesn't make you delusional, stupid maybe. Maybe it is self centered or selfish, which is why in the first post it was stated that there would be no family issues. It's about overcoming challenge, risk and completing goals, which I guess is ultimately a very personal and self-centered thing.
sierra
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Gris I see where your coming from and your points are both articulate and well taken. I have structured my life such that mountainerring is my top priority. Im single and other then my dog Im on my own. My immediate family knows who i am, a mountain climber. Quite frankly if I wasnt off tromping in some hills then they would worry.
The beck weathers incident is amoung the saddest and bravist tales in mountaineering, also Robb hall and his dying phone call brings to light the responsibity of having others to be resposible for and thats an augument I see being made.
Also I think its very important to note that while I might be willing to "stick my neck out" it isnt without much thought and evalution. Many climbers become "blinded" by the summit and pay the ultimate price that list is both long and illustrious.
The beck weathers incident is amoung the saddest and bravist tales in mountaineering, also Robb hall and his dying phone call brings to light the responsibity of having others to be resposible for and thats an augument I see being made.
Also I think its very important to note that while I might be willing to "stick my neck out" it isnt without much thought and evalution. Many climbers become "blinded" by the summit and pay the ultimate price that list is both long and illustrious.
Davehiker
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Not my cup of tea...I'm just too much of a woos!
NumNum
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LOL, your not the only one!!!Davehiker said:Not my cup of tea...I'm just too much of a woos!
C.Tracy
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I say NO WAY....I take enough risks at work, and when I "play" to do something like that, and for what? "hey, thats the guy that climbed Mt Everest" "What else has he done?" I would much rather find a cure for a disease, that would be satisfying
"What else has he done?" I would much rather find a cure for a disease, that would be satisfying 
i think it's also important to point out that not just anyone can climb Everest. I guess I am not convinced that just any random hiker who trains like h@ll can make it. You have to have a unique combination of athletic superiority, intense perceverence (sp), and a bit of insanity to make it.
Woody
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If I had the opportunity and the cash to pay for the trip I would definately give it a shot. Realizing that there is risk in everything we do, I would try to be as safe as possible. I do want to see my kids have kids. (hopefully not too soon ) I remember coming down Rainier and asking myself what I was doing up there. As soon as I got down to Camp Muir I was planning my next grand adventure! I figure I take a risk driving down the interstate to work every day. As long as I understand the risks and try to keep them to a minimum I would love to try to climb an 8000 meter peak. Since I am not independently wealthy and have trouble getting two consecutive weeks off of work, I don't think I'll get the chance. (I think I'll go out and buy a Powerball or Megabucks ticket!) I think I have to settle for 14'ers when I can get the time and money to go out west.
) I remember coming down Rainier and asking myself what I was doing up there. As soon as I got down to Camp Muir I was planning my next grand adventure! I figure I take a risk driving down the interstate to work every day. As long as I understand the risks and try to keep them to a minimum I would love to try to climb an 8000 meter peak. Since I am not independently wealthy and have trouble getting two consecutive weeks off of work, I don't think I'll get the chance. (I think I'll go out and buy a Powerball or Megabucks ticket!) I think I have to settle for 14'ers when I can get the time and money to go out west.
Rick
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Absolutely no desire. I am afraid I would die of sheer boredom, hanging around in a tent for so long, although I wouldn't mind trekkig into base camp for an overnight. I guess I am an outdoor generalist. I enjoy a bit of everything but am no longer fixated with or obsessed on anything in particular.
Whiteman
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Another survival tale on Everest
The NY Times had another story today: "Dead" Climber's Survival Impugns Mount Everest Ethics .
As for climbing Everest, with all of those assumptions about being fit and having the cash, I'm up for the assault. I like to think that my 51 years on the planet have given me (at least sometime in the last few years) the sense of knowing when to turn back. I even did it once, on the massive peak in Vermont known as Mansfield (winter, climbed lee side of the mountain, turn-around time reached). I assume the stats for the people who do the "normal" route are a little better than the total grim picture of 10% death rate.
Now, back to breakfast . . .
The NY Times had another story today: "Dead" Climber's Survival Impugns Mount Everest Ethics .
As for climbing Everest, with all of those assumptions about being fit and having the cash, I'm up for the assault. I like to think that my 51 years on the planet have given me (at least sometime in the last few years) the sense of knowing when to turn back. I even did it once, on the massive peak in Vermont known as Mansfield (winter, climbed lee side of the mountain, turn-around time reached). I assume the stats for the people who do the "normal" route are a little better than the total grim picture of 10% death rate.
Now, back to breakfast . . .
Gris
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I'll stir the pot yet again. I think a HUGE part of the problem is that unlike say Mt. Washington or someplace stateside, the typical climber gets to Everest knowing they will NEVER have another chance. And, with that, there goes all sense of judgment, even to the point of deceiving their guides if they can; true "summit fever" if you will. All for what? Some imagined sense of glory/accomplishment. The whole notion reminds me of my days in youth as a competetive surfer. Had a young friend thought he was fit and savy enough to take on Sunset Beach north shore of Hawaii on a 15+ day. It was his "one shot." Thirty minutes after paddling out he was being revived by the lifeguards on the beach, a way close call, "summit fever" as well if you please...
Rols
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I am a no vote. Those of you who have hiked with me know I am a hiking conservative (although under the right weather conditions, I do solo in Winter). Probably the biggest reason I would not do it is that I am content hiking the Whites....I get out of them all the joy and satisfaction I need.
I am still laughing to myself that Tuco initiated this thread. On every Winter hike I've accompanied him on he has had long passionate discussions with his snowshoes and crampons (and none of them are complementary). While we hike he can often be heard chanting..."Make Winter go away....make Winter go away".
I am still laughing to myself that Tuco initiated this thread. On every Winter hike I've accompanied him on he has had long passionate discussions with his snowshoes and crampons (and none of them are complementary). While we hike he can often be heard chanting..."Make Winter go away....make Winter go away".
Tuco
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Rols said:
Thanks to Paul, I have been found out
I guess I should also say assuming you also don't hate the winter But I did enjoy all my winter hikes. And you should have heard what my crampons and snowhsoes have been saying about me....I am interested in the responses about knowing when to turn back, etc. One of my fears would be that decision making, even for those who are level headed could be thrown off by the conditions. I don't know if thats true but thought that it could be so..
Paradox
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The new guy has to vote no
There are to many interesting things to do in this world to give up such a large part of it to one endeavor. The moment of victory might last 2 minutes, much of that spent looking through a camera lens documenting it. In the Whites I can spend an hour or more on top of a mountain taking in the view, eating lunch, scratching my dogs ears,... scratching other stuff that needs scratching.
Nah, the death rate is too high and the guys that survive often have perfectly good body parts turn black and fall off. The Northeast is wicked good in my book.
There are to many interesting things to do in this world to give up such a large part of it to one endeavor. The moment of victory might last 2 minutes, much of that spent looking through a camera lens documenting it. In the Whites I can spend an hour or more on top of a mountain taking in the view, eating lunch, scratching my dogs ears,... scratching other stuff that needs scratching.
Nah, the death rate is too high and the guys that survive often have perfectly good body parts turn black and fall off. The Northeast is wicked good in my book.
LenDawg
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I answered could be talked into it. I think Giggy said it best with the superbowl reference. But I also think of it this way: Some mornings, I feel like I can climb Everest. By evening, I have troubles climbing the stairs. And like the Superbowl where I can only imagine myself throwing touchdown passes, so can I only imagine myself climbing Everest.
