Fire!!

[dave.m]

What do you carry in your pack or in pockets to start a fire? What do you carry in terms of tools to help with the wood?

Do you ever light a fire when traveling in the backcountry? If so, under what circumstances?

Have you ever needed to start a fire to stay warm, dry out or otherwise contribute to the safety of your party? If so, what happened to cause it?

So... One of the things I find most fascinating about backcountry travel is how many different outdoor cultures there are. I'm a backpacker and ski tourer. All the books I've read growing up in the sport have emphasized "leave no trace" (or put your trace elsewhere) ethics that rely on tents for shelter and stoves for heat. I'm cool with this.

In the many decades I've been doing this, I've had to rely on my stove (like really no kidding get it started now) a handful of times, all in the winter. But, I've never once needed to light a fire for health and well being. In fact, I can only think of a few times I've had a fire when camping on Federal lands.

But when I hunt with my cousins on private land that is actively logged... well... let's just say there is a very different understanding about impact on the forest up at hunting camp.

And the past year or so, I've bumped into more folks on the net who are into "bushcrafting" and "survivalism". I'm stunned at the amount of attention they put on fire starting skills. And I'm slack jawed at the amount of cutting tools people claim to carry.

So, I'm curious.

 

[Peakbagr]

Vaseline soaked cotton balls in an old film container. Burns like Napalm.

 

[dave.m]

Jake, what do you carry for tinder, if anything. Stove fuel counts (in my book).

Peakbagr, what do you carry in terms of cutting tools, if anything? Also, what do you carry to start a fire? Lighter? Firesteel?

 

[sardog1]

Vaseline soaked cotton balls in an old film container. Burns like Napalm.

+1.

I'm a fair bit like you, pinnah, being a person who virtually never lights a fire. If it's light out, I'm on my feet doing something or going somewhere. If it's dark and I'm fed, I'm in my sleeping bag. I am something of a cross-over, being a backpacker/nordic skier/hunter. I do take a knife that could produce shavings for fire, but I never do that for myself. Outside deer season, it's on me mostly in case I need to get a fire going for someone else. I think most VFTTers would be astonished at the devotion to firemaking and the coveting of various sharp edges among other outdoor-oriented subcultures. I will say from experience that a wood-fired tent stove is probably sensible in the winter where subzero temps prevail and wood is available without leaving lasting harm to the landscape.

 

[dave.m]

I think most VFTTers would be astonished at the devotion to firemaking and the coveting of various sharp edges among other outdoor-oriented subcultures.

Bingo!!!

I will say from experience that a wood-fired tent stove is probably sensible in the winter where subzero temps prevail and wood is available without leaving lasting harm to the landscape.

I would be interested to hear about how to have a wood fired tent? I'm toying with the idea of getting a Vargo wood stove to replace my Trangia's pot holder. Not that I would burn wood in it much, but it would be a "plan B". I need a pot holder for that stove anyhow so it's an easy swap.

Jake, my approach is identical to yours, almost. I carry an Opinel #9 in my pocket and have a few Bics stashed in various parts of my backpack to light the fires. I don't carry tinder (other than my stove fuel and priming paste). Am considering adding something like Vaseline/cotton balls but like you, can always find enough birch bark or balsam. In the winter, I'll add a folding saw to my kit. That's my nod to the fact that a fire could actually save (or cook) my bacon.

Does anybody regularly carry a fixed blade or a hatchet to split wood? Or a folding saw to cut wood?

 

[Red Oak]

In my pack;mini bic/matches[in plastic bag]/hemp string/firestarter square.
None of these mean anything if you do not know what to do with them!I do controlled burns all winter to help with late spring/early summer draught issues on a wooded plot I manage,so am very lucky to be able to practice whenever.Getting a fire started in a blizzard or rain storm is a art form.Above treeline is another story.
Yesterday I had a nice ipa and then tried something new to boil up some tea while at my winter camp.Got this from Les Stroud,took some duck tape and used it to kindle some twigs and then larger wood to really get a nice fire going.
Bics are ok down to about 0[if in your pocket],but not reliable.Matches are ok,but must be kept dry[a given].Best fire starter available is your Brain!
Couple of basics though;get a large dry piece of wood to start the fire on,make sure all your wood is dry[or dry on one side] and learn the difference between green wood and dry wood[or dead wood].Also learning the difference between hardwood and softwood is important.Softwood is good as tinder but the hardwood is your all nighter log.

 

[sardog1]

I would be interested to hear about how to have a wood fired tent? I'm toying with the idea of getting a Vargo wood stove to replace my Trangia's pot holder. Not that I would burn wood in it much, but it would be a "plan B". I need a pot holder for that stove anyhow so it's an easy swap.
...
Does anybody regularly carry a fixed blade or a hatchet to split wood? Or a folding saw to cut wood?

Wood-fired stoves are the core of so-called "Hot Tenting". It really doesn't work with nylon tent fabric, though ...

The fixed-blade knife I carry is a Roselli Hunter of an early design. It's capable of splitting small pieces when a chunk of wood is used as a baton on the blade. It's on the left in this pic (some of you will probably recognize one or the other of the rest):



I also carry a Sven-Saw made in my hometown.

 

[Billy]

Great short story by Jack London called "To Build a Fire".
A wonderful slow-motion train wreck.

 

[Brambor]

I carry on my day trips a ziploc bag with large matches and 'tacky cloth' bits for firestarter.

On overnight trips I add a piece of firestarter brick and two different sources of matches in different containers.

On winter day trips I never make a fire. I keep moving, eating and drinking hot tea. The days are short enough for my old bones to barely make the peak and come back to the parking lot before dark.

On overnight trips I almost always make a fire. Again, keep moving to stay warm so I keep moving to make my shelter and then I keep moving to collect wood, I keep moving to break up the wood. I almost never bring minisaw or a hatchet. I usually start a fire in my solo woodburning stove and make a dinner. Put the dinner in a cozy to rehydrate and then use the coals from the woodburning stove to start a small campfire. On winter trips it gets dark by 6PM. Having a campfire extends the evening nicely, keeps you entertained tending the fire, gives you warmth. Sometimes, If I'm camping alone I listen to a small fm radio by the fire. It feels good. Probably around 8 or 9 I make a hot water bottle, stuff it into the sleeping bag, wait for the fire to go out and go to bed.

There have been times when I stretched the day to the point that I arrived too late at the campsite. At that point there is not enough practical time to collect wood, especially if it's burried in the snow. During those occassions I just make dinner, boil water for hot waterbottle, get into my shelter and read my kindle.

Knife - I usually carry CRKT minimalist around my neck but for overtime winter trips I also bring this thing:

 

[dave.m]

Vaseline soaked cotton balls in an old film container. Burns like Napalm.

My kids just asked this...

What are these "film containers" of which you speak?

They also asked me which web browser I used when I was a kid. Really.

 

[Stan]

I found that I can control the direction of the wind by standing near a fire (it'll always blow in my face). Not wanting to be a cause of climate change, I therefore minimize my fires. However, I try to be well equipped, particularly with ignition devices which include three types of matches and a windproof cigarette lighter. I practice lighting a fire occasionally because it is probably one of the most important skills to have in a survival situation.

 

[dave.m]

Sardog and Brambor,

Do you actually use those fixed blades for fire making?

Sardog, you mention batoning. Do you actually do that? Or do you guys solely rely on making shavings for the fire starting.

I'm curious about your different approaches to cutting. Sardog, do you really carry a full blown Sven saw? Are there times when you find it better than a small folding saw? Could you describe that?

Brambor, how do you bust up dead fall if you don't carry a saw (or hatchet)? That's a handsome knife, btw. What is it.

I recently got an old Schrade H-15 and my kid made me a nice sheath for it this Christmas. It will go hunting, for sure. Considering if it finds it's way into the pack for winter camping but honestly struggling as a) I don't use fires often and b) I seem to be doing OK with the larger Opinels.


h-15-sheath by Pinnah, on Flickr

No argumentation here btw. Just wanting to swap tales of what works well.

 

[DougPaul]

Also learning the difference between hardwood and softwood is important.Softwood is good as tinder but the hardwood is your all nighter log.

"My son," said the Great Chief Woodpecker, "no sparking allowed in the teepee. Beech, Maple, Hickory or Ash never spark. Pine knots an' roots don't, but they make smoke like--like--oh--you know. Hemlock, Ellum, Chestnut, Spruce and Cedar is public sparkers, an' not fit for dacint teepee sassiety. Big Injun heap hate noisy, crackling fire. Enemy hear that, an'--an'--it burns his bedclothes."

This book and others by Seton (a well-known turn-of-the century naturalist (1860-1946)) can be found at http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/535 (free). Bio at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Thompson_Seton

A number of his books contain good trail and wood craft info.


And I guess that you can put me in the "Fire? What's that?" category. While I carry several fire starting methods (weather-proof matches, lighters), I almost never use them.

Doug

 

[Neil]

Vaseline soaked cotton balls in an old film container. Burns like Napalm.

Alan, have you tried using dryer lint?

Do you warm the Vaseline up first?

 

[Red Oak]

This book and others by Seton (a well-known turn-of-the century naturalist (1860-1946)) can be found at http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/535 (free). Bio at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Thompson_Seton

A number of his books contain good trail and wood craft info.

Doug

Thanks for that info!With the advent of nooks and etc.,hardback or paperback old books will be hard pressed to find such as that one you quote.
Meant to say on original quote Dead and DRy softwood to get a fire going.green pine is no good,you right....

 

[Brambor]

small branches can be broken off by hand

thicker brances are easily broken by stomping with your heel on them

that is usually enough for small fire that would last 2 - 3 hours. But thick longer tree trunks can be laid across the fire until they burn through. That essentially splits them in two ... put it back on the fire... repeat if necessary.

I think foldable saw would be nice. Actually I am considering buying the Swen saw in this thread but I think it isn't really necessary for small fire.

Knives - do I use the fixed blade to start the fire? Well, honestly, not really. I just bring it because people say you should have it for overnight outings but honestly I can't think of any situations when I really needed it.

I use carry bits of this for firestarter. It burns well.

 

[dave.m]

I think they just smear it on. The other container people use is a soda straw. they shove the coated cotton ball in the straw and seal it off

Whoa! This is a new trick to me. Especially cool since we have no more film canisters!!

Q1: how do you do the sealing?

Q2: do you pull all the cotton out to use or just a bit like a candle wick?

 

[Tom_Murphy]

I am more of a backcountry camper than a hiker, so this topic is near & dear to me. When allowed, I often practice making a small cook fire.

I have had a ton of failures when the forest is wet and in the winter. I have found establishing a fire to be a lot more difficult and time consuming than I ever expected, even in the summer. I learned lots and lots at the beginning, I am still learning, and I am grateful I have never needed to make one.

If anything, practicing making small cook fires has convinced me that I should not assume I will be able to start a fire whenever I want. I am sure others are better at it and can make that assumption, I can't and don't.

For me, finding enough dry fuel is the biggest challenge; it can take a ton of wood processing to establish and sustain a fire when everything is wet or covered with snow. The second biggest challenge for me is transitioning from twigs to sticks without using a ton of tinder.

I bring:
firesteel & dryer lint & pine needles & a few parrafin wax cubes in a ziploc
a bic lighter & a second firesteel in the 1st aid kit
swiss army knife (for feather sticks)
21" sven saw (for branches and the very, very, occasional log)

I bring a gerber sport hatchet for batoning when I use my pulk in the winter. I haven't settle on which knife to buy for this task on 3 season trips but I can tell you the blade in a standard swiss army knife does not work for batoning and is marginal [at best] for stripping off wet bark .

If anyone is interested in bushcraft, google Ray Mears and Mors Kochanski rather than Les Shroud or, God forbid, Bear Grylls. Bushcraft appeals to the idea of self sufficiency and I like knowing how to assemble a tripod for a kettle and how to make a cooking fire but I would never want spend a night in a debris shelter, yuk.

 

[Peakbagr]

"Peakbagr, what do you carry in terms of cutting tools, if anything? Also, what do you carry to start a fire? Lighter? Firesteel?"

Waterproof matches, the ones with large heads. In a 1/2 oz plastic match safe that screws together with gasket inbetween.
Neil, dryer lint would work, but cotton balls seem more dense. No need to warm it, but if that was a concern, inside your shirt for 20 min.
For those without old film canisters, plastic medicine bottle work too, but ones with wide mouths.

 

[sierra]

I carry on my day trips a ziploc bag with large matches and 'tacky cloth' bits for firestarter.

On overnight trips I add a piece of firestarter brick and two different sources of matches in different containers.

On winter day trips I never make a fire. I keep moving, eating and drinking hot tea. The days are short enough for my old bones to barely make the peak and come back to the parking lot before dark.

On overnight trips I almost always make a fire. Again, keep moving to stay warm so I keep moving to make my shelter and then I keep moving to collect wood, I keep moving to break up the wood. I almost never bring minisaw or a hatchet. I usually start a fire in my solo woodburning stove and make a dinner. Put the dinner in a cozy to rehydrate and then use the coals from the woodburning stove to start a small campfire. On winter trips it gets dark by 6PM. Having a campfire extends the evening nicely, keeps you entertained tending the fire, gives you warmth. Sometimes, If I'm camping alone I listen to a small fm radio by the fire. It feels good. Probably around 8 or 9 I make a hot water bottle, stuff it into the sleeping bag, wait for the fire to go out and go to bed.

There have been times when I stretched the day to the point that I arrived too late at the campsite. At that point there is not enough practical time to collect wood, especially if it's burried in the snow. During those occassions I just make dinner, boil water for hot waterbottle, get into my shelter and read my kindle.

Knife - I usually carry CRKT minimalist around my neck but for overtime winter trips I also bring this thing:

A Randell that it sweet !!!!! I carry REI stormproof matches in one of those orange waterproof containers. I also carry a fixed blade, there is plenty of tinder not to carry any, ( unless your above treeline ,where you wouldnt light a fire anyway).