Great Range Traverse in Winter?

[hikingfish]

Ouray!
Winter is soon approaching (relatively speaking). With this in mind, I was doing a couple of searches on google this afternoon and I could find plenty of trip reports and web pages on a Presi traverse in winter, but nothing on a Great Range traverse in winter.

Anyone has any info or personal experience they could share regarding this subject? Obviously, it would involve winter camping and such, perhaps some ice climbing as well (Saddleback) and a steep slide ascent up Gothics (would be cool if one would attach an ascender to the cables on Gothics, although I was thinking of using a pair of carabiners and webbing to clip onto the cable, a bit like what I believe is via ferrata, just in case of a fall).

Thanks!

Fish

 

[AOC]

The Gothics cables are often buried by snow or ice in winter. Most people do fine with an ice axe or ski pole on that section of the trail. It's really not that steep. I think the main issue on a winter Great Range traverse would be trail-breaking on less popular (e.g., Rooster Comb - Lower Wolf Jaw), or more remote (e.g., Saddleback to Haystack) parts of the Range trail. Upper Wolf Jaw to Saddleback is often broken out, but there is always wind blown snow to plow through higher up. This certainly would be a serious workout, especially with a heavy winter pack.

 

[hikingfish]

I hadn't thought of that to be honest (the trailbreaking), although there was no doubt in my mind that it would be a huge undertaking and would require a lot of physical effort.

I thought about the cables being burried, but there's always self-arrest should something happen. I've never done that slide in winter: Is it comparable to going up Algonquin (which I've done in winter) in terms of steepness level?

My main concerns would be where to camp on the great range: Hopefully not too far away from the trail (eg: not 2 miles out, but a few hundred feet away is no big deal) and how to tackle going up Saddleback.

AOC: Have you ever done the traverse in winter? Any ideas for my two concerns? Thanks again for your previous info, greatly appreciated!

Fish

 

[AOC-1]

I plan to hike the complete GR traverse for the first time this weekend. I've done part of the Range trail in winter as a day hike when it was broken out like a highway (Lower Wolf Jaw to Gothics). The cable route on Gothics is on par with the steepest section of the Algonquin trail (the part just below tree-line that ices up so well in the early season), but much longer. If you are reasonably comfortable in crampons you shouldn't have any trouble with it.
The steepest section would be the descent from Saddleback to Basin. I remember reading a story some years ago in Adirondac about a guy who fell and broke a leg while soloing this section of the route in winter. Care definitely required here.

From the map, it looks like you could establish a legal camp (i.e., below 3500 ft) in the col between Lower and Upper Wolf Jaw. You can also camp legally at the former Sno-Bird Lean-to site (between Basin and Haystack). I would want at least 3 or 4 others on a winter traverse to help with the trail-breaking. I'm still working on a successful Presidential winter traverse. I've been blown off the ridge 4x now. A Great Range winter traverse is probably easier to complete because the weather is not as much a factor. But in terms of sheer physical effort, I'm guessing it's significantly harder than the Presidential Traverse.

 

[blacklab2020]

Depending on the season and how late you do the traverse, the ladder on Armstrong may be covered completely by ice. If so, you have about a 15 foot near vertical climb. Just right of where the ladder is (going up) this should be manageable with the thought that if you fall you will land in about 3+ feet of powder. Its a fun little bit. Early in the season (Up to early Jan) there generally isnt much deep snow and there is usually a thaw around new years. After about the end of Jan the snow is pretty much there to stay.

Camping in the cols is pretty good actually. If you plan on carrying full packs ... a moderate first day would be to camp in the wolfjaw col (If you head up from roostercomb). There are a couple of nice winter sites that are generally packed down back there. The next day should be an early start to get over gothics with a reasonable amount of daylight left. Be weary of snow conditions on the west side of gothics, if conditions were right a slide/avalanche is possible. You could plan on staying in or below gothics col...

I wouldnt venture down orbed too far however. That might be a nasty little section if it is very icy. However later in the season it was fine since much of it was hardened snow. I remember there being a clearing in the col between gothics and saddle back. I am not sure what the elevation is off the top of my head.

I also wouldnt suggest going down saddleback if you're tired at the end of the day. Other than that I would certainly suggest a night at panther gorge or slant rock. Again if you choose panther gorge... go up the backside of haystack... not down it. So a traverse hitting marcy and then coming out the great range is probably the safest, since you would be climbing the most difficult sections (i.e. saddleback, gothics). Dealing with the ladder going down armstrong might be a little more interesting as well.

The gothics cable has always been covered when I did this.

Best of luck.

Justin

 

[Jay H]

I read about a person's attempt on the GR in winter somewhere online, it was a very excellent, professionally-quality like trip report that was pretty good and somewhat humerous. I tried to google it but failed to find it.

I believe the first attempt was foiled by exactly what was mentioned here, a lot of fresh snow and no tracks so I believe the three guys bailed on Gothics or before that. I don't recall what happened to the second attempt or the third or even if they managed to do it on the third attempt but I remember it being a pretty good read, albeit somewhat long.

If I can find the link again, I'll post it.

[edit] OOOHh, found it, I think these are the three reports I read somewhat long time ago... Sounds like it:


http://www.bansheewerks.com/frivolities/climb/

Scroll down past the rock climbing and mountaineering links and look for the three links to the great range traverses...

Jay

 

[mtn.goat]

I know it's a little early to be talking about this but keep me in mind HikingFish if you want to give this a try this winter. Since I solo'ed the GR in July I've been thinking about how much fun it would to be to do it in the winter (although not as a dayhike and NOT alone). I'd be more than interested to join you come winter (Jan, Feb, etc).

 

[out there]

via ferrata technique

via ferrata involves more than a couple lengths of webbing and biners-there are mechanisms of shock load absorption -home made and commercial.
A fall on static webbing and a cable system can yield up to a factor 2 fall if no friction from body (on rock) and/or devices. This could easily break your back and/or gear - if either is precious to you, refine your tech

 

[TCD]

I've done the GR many time in Summer, but not in Winter. Sounds like fun!

Agree with out there regarding using Gothics cable as a via ferrata. Not safe without shock absorption. Also, as others have pointed out, probably buried and probably not needed.

I've also thought a really cool (though illegal) bivy site would be the narrow slot caves near the top of Gothics above the cable trail.

I would want a good sized party for the trail breaking on this trip.

 

[hikingfish]

Basin -> Saddleback in Winter

I was more referring to using a carabiner and webbing as an emergency resort. I had in my mind the fact that you'd be able to slow (but perhaps not stop) yourself using self-arest. But you guys bring up a good point: What if you lose your axe and are sliding down. You'd probably break your back when that carabiner / webbing concoction stops you.

Ditto on the number of people: You'd want to be at least 3 extra people (4 total) to help trail breaking. I've read trip reports of knee deep snow on certain less travelled parts of the trail.

How much time would you guys reckon is needed to do the traverse? 2 or 3 days?

I'm still hoping to find some info (pictures would be awesome) of what is required to do Basin -> Saddleback. Is there perhaps another way around the steep rocks on Saddleback? I'll have to look at the map later tonight.

Fish

 

[blacklab2020]

3-4 day minimum with full packs (in full winter conditions meaning fresh snow and single to negative degree temperatures)... don't plan on terribly long days (more than 5-6 miles on the range) first time around. Coming down off the range is different and going down you can generally make good time. You should also have an extra day or two available. If you finish early Great! If not you can use that extra time. Be sure to bring candle lanterns, if you do take a day of rest or very bad weather sets in, etc.

If you are looking for company I might be interested if it is in Late Jan to Late February.

As far as saddle back is concerned: The headwalls are steeper if you move to the south and if you move towards the north the slide is more exposed. It probably wouldnt hurt, if the group was sizeable, to carry a rope for that section.

~J

 

[AOC-1]

I think a strong, experienced group of 4 or 5 could do this hike in 2 days under normal winter conditions if the weather cooperates. I'm interested in doing a trip like this also if anyone thinks to revive this thread this winter.

 

[blacklab2020]

Rethinking this ... I have done half the range in a day in winter...2 days IS very possible for a strong group.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Rethinking this ... I have done half the range in a day in winter...2 days IS very possible for a strong group.

..or a challenging sub-24 hour trip under spiffy conditions, perhaps?

 

[Pete_Hickey]

..or a challenging sub-24 hour trip under spiffy conditions, perhaps?

Without a doubt. Conditions are everything, though. I failed 3 times to get Gothics on day trips, then one day, I did Saddleback, Gothics, Armstrong, Upper, Lower Wolfjaw, and was back at the Garden by 3:00 in the afternoon.

If I could do that in just under 9 hours, a guy like you could do the whole thing in a bit over 12 hours, I would think..... Given those great conditions.

 

[AOC-1]

Sub 24-hour winter traverse

Well, I'm mortal so that rules me out. From what I've seen, you should have no trouble, Tim. (BTW, great quote from Frog and Toad. We're big fans.)

 

[hikingfish]

Saddleback

I was thinking a rope (and technical ice axes) would absolutely be needed for Saddleback, assuming the terrain looks exactly like what I saw 2 weeks ago with ice over the rocks. I didn't see (or rather, I didn't pay attention to) any slides on Saddleback. Is it comparable to Gothics' or steeper? It might be worth investigating.

The only long (5 day) trip I've done in winter was sleeping in huts. I'm guessing one would have to plan a lot more time to setup / break camp. So 10-12 hr days would probably be out of the question and would take their toll if done 4 days in a row.

 

[blacklab2020]

Yes 4 days of winter backpacking takes its toll... melting snow, breaking camp etc. However, the more the merrier (provided it doesnt slow you down, if that matters). I like to get up before daylight and break camp with headlamps.

About saddleback, I will post an excellent picture of the slide/scramble segment of trail later tonight from basin. You will see the slide to the left is much steeper than gothics (primarily the headwalls).

You said you saw Ice on it two weeks ago? There must have been freezing rain up there??

If conditions were good you could probably get away with one axe rather than two tools. If there is ice on that rock it is likely to be thinner than you would want to take a whack at with ice tools.

 

[hikingfish]

About saddleback, I will post an excellent picture of the slide/scramble segment of trail later tonight from basin. You will see the slide to the left is much steeper than gothics (primarily the headwalls).

You said you saw Ice on it two weeks ago? There must have been freezing rain up there??

No! Sorry about that. There was no ice there 2 weeks ago. I was just imagining that the rock scramble would be extremely tricky should there be ice over them.

Look forward to seeing your picture. Are you going to add it directly to this thread? That would very appreciated. I'm supposed to get my pictures of the great traverse tonight. I'll check I have a picture of Saddleback from Basin.

Fish

 

[blacklab2020]

Fish:

I sent you a private message (PM) regarding the picture. Please PM me regarding further details.

Justin