Woody
New member
The bear box at Imp was like a very large steel box similar is size the the ones that Pete has posted a picture of. It was a couple of years ago when I was there.
Woody
Woody
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KMartman
New member
I did just have a thought regarding BearVaults and canisters like it.
If the bears are becoming aware that we (humans) store food in these things, and they are beginning to figure out how to open them, doesn't it stand to reason that even if you utilize them that the bears would still enter your campsite if they think food will be in there?
Might we have to start hanging the canister? Seems that with a canister the food is still "in camp" with you...if they smell it..even if they can't get it, they're coming and if they don't get food, they may get mean.
Just a thought.???
M
If the bears are becoming aware that we (humans) store food in these things, and they are beginning to figure out how to open them, doesn't it stand to reason that even if you utilize them that the bears would still enter your campsite if they think food will be in there?
Might we have to start hanging the canister? Seems that with a canister the food is still "in camp" with you...if they smell it..even if they can't get it, they're coming and if they don't get food, they may get mean.
Just a thought.???
M
lumberzac
New member
KMartman said:
Don't hang a canister! Doing so compromises the design it two ways. One, by tying a rope to the canister it gives the bear something to grab. Two, the canister could break open if it's hung and dropped on a rock or hard ground.
Canisters should be stashed 150 feet or so away from camp away from water or any large drop offs. If possible leave the canister in a small depression, so if a bear does start kicking it around it won’t travel far. The canister should never be left in camp.
teejay
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From the NYS DEC.
Canisters should be stored at least 100 feet away the campsite. Wedge the canister between rocks, under logs or just lay in a shallow depression. Do NOT hang canisters - bears can still carry off your food. Do NOT store canisters in carrying case - as bears will be able to carry it away. Do NOT store canisters near water - canisters are not watertight but they may float long enough to move a considerable distance from your camp.
teejay
Canisters should be stored at least 100 feet away the campsite. Wedge the canister between rocks, under logs or just lay in a shallow depression. Do NOT hang canisters - bears can still carry off your food. Do NOT store canisters in carrying case - as bears will be able to carry it away. Do NOT store canisters near water - canisters are not watertight but they may float long enough to move a considerable distance from your camp.
teejay
KMartman
New member
I knew that wouldnt take long ;-)
Thanks...I knew there had to be something I was too lazy this morning to search...
M
Thanks...I knew there had to be something I was too lazy this morning to search...
M
Pete_Hickey
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"Stand to reason", isn't necessary. Cannisters are nothing new. They have been in use for well over 10 years in other areas. We "know" what will happen.KMartman said:
Jeff-B
New member
Stev-o said:
Not true.
Way back BC (before canisters) I stayed at many popular backcountry campsites during an entire summer for 7 straight weeks while hiking the John Muir Trail in the Sierras. Hanging food was a daily routine, except above treeline, where bears don't go anyway (11,000'+).
At least someone each night had thier food taken. One incident occured at the very next tent due to poor food hang.
If we had cooked fish during dinner, even after cleaning everything, we saw bear tracks in camp next morning.
This was one time I heard the pots rattle on our hang.
Agreed, a canister is safer and hassle free.
But the rope'in brings me back to a pioneering era!
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sleeping bear
New member
I just heard that NOLS now makes use of an electric bear fence. I guess you put all your stuff in a pile, put up the few strands of fence, pop in a couple AA batteries and turn it on.... very interesting...
I have certainly been guitly of poor bear bags in the past (on a few occasions, not often!). It's getting dark, my arm is getting sore from tossing the stupid rope, ah screw it! Just cross your fingers and go to bed. Obviously, this is not good to do, and most probably are lucky no bears are around.
I'd like to get a canister, there are just so many other things I'd rather spend a hundred bucks on!
I have certainly been guitly of poor bear bags in the past (on a few occasions, not often!). It's getting dark, my arm is getting sore from tossing the stupid rope, ah screw it! Just cross your fingers and go to bed. Obviously, this is not good to do, and most probably are lucky no bears are around.
I'd like to get a canister, there are just so many other things I'd rather spend a hundred bucks on!
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KMartman
New member
sleeping bear said:I'd like to get a canister, there are just so many other things I'd rather spend a hundred bucks on!
Mee too.....and I have soo many "stuff sacks" and a rope...I dont travel too often in bear territory..
M
Chip
Well-known member
Proper food handling through out your trip accounts for a lot. Keeping everything clean in closed zip locks, not cooking next to your tent, not cleaning your pots next to your tent, not letting the chocolate and cheese melt in your hands and onto your shorts. I use MRE's or Mountainhouse with the boil in, eat in bags, so there's no dirty pots, just empty pouches and boiled water. I usually re-use one of those pouches for my oatmeal the next morning. No mess, no cleaning.KMartman said:
The "Big Picture" is teaching bear that humans don't equal food, but your sleepy time concern is that the bear raids someone elses sight. Just like "you don't have to out run the bear, just your hiking partner", yours doesn't have to be a perfect hang, just a cleaner campsite and a better hang than the next set of campers.
KMartman
New member
Chip said:
Ziplocks are a huge part of my camping gear...not only do they keep everything in one place...they keep things neater...I also am VERY aware and don't cook and/or clean anywhere near the tent itself...and avoid using my clothes as napkins as much as possible. I dont like MRE's, but mountain house is pretty good...never thought of using one the next day for oatmeal..good idea...
M
Chip
Well-known member
KMartman said:
WHAT ??? I LOVE THEM !!! My boys ask for them WHEN WE ARE HOME !!! They like the BBQ pork over Raman and the Vegetable Biscuits.My boss, an active duty reservist captain just gave me one with Chocolate Cappucino
and Chicken Fajitas, complete with the burrito wraps ! I often mix the Chicken and Salsa MRE with some Spanish Rice !
Seriously, if you had no water and no stove you could still eat the MRE's, that Mountainhouse Chicken Teriyaki would be a might DRY.
KMartman
New member
Chip said:
My boss, an active duty reservist captain just gave me one with Chocolate Cappucino
I often mix the Chicken and Salsa MRE with some Spanish Rice !
Seriously, if you had no water and no stove you could still eat the MRE's, that Mountainhouse Chicken Teriyaki would be a might DRY.
That last part is very true..
It has been a while since I ate an MRE so maybe that have improved over the years...those weren't the "menu" selections last I had an MRE..maybe its time to revisit it...? Hmmm
M
lumberzac
New member
Ziplocks are a big part of my hiking gear as well. I also reuse Mountainhouse bags to hold any of my wet garbage.
One thing to note is that bears have a very good sense of smell (7x's greater than a bloodhound’s about 1000x's greater than humans) and it is not likely that a ziplock will completely prevent them from smelling the food that is inside. Still it probably helps reduce the range that bears can smell it from.
One thing to note is that bears have a very good sense of smell (7x's greater than a bloodhound’s about 1000x's greater than humans) and it is not likely that a ziplock will completely prevent them from smelling the food that is inside. Still it probably helps reduce the range that bears can smell it from.
KMartman
New member
lumberzac said:
Agreed...I would never use a ziplock thinking it was "airtight" enough to foil a bears sense of smell...not happening....but they are great for keeping food stuffs in..
M
HAMTERO
Active member
jrichard
New member
HAMTERO said:
Yeah, I use the PCT Method as described in that article, although I didn't buy the material from that website. All you need is some parachute cord, a "toy" carabiner, a stuff sack, and a stick. Oh, and you need to be able to tie a quick release knot, like the clove hitch.
It's really pretty simple.
But it does require a branch of the proper length and at the proper height. Just finding that might take you 1/4 mile from your campsite.
jrichard
New member
AMC caretakers and food
A couple years back while camping at an AMC shelter, I was asked the caretaker what he does about bears.
Nothing.
Food was in non-bearproof tins. I asked about where to hang food, he said bears weren't a problem. He said keep a clean campsite and watch out for the mice. (There's a lot to this mice business too.)
I strolled around one of these sites last year and found people cooking right next to their tent, kids leaving scraps of food around, and various oatmeal packet wrappers in various stages of decomposition around the tent platforms.
Apparently bears aren't a big enough problem in the whites yet, at least not at the higher elevation campsites.
I've encountered quite a few bears while hiking, and I'm kinda puzzled why NH doesn't have the same problem that NY and CA have. But I expect that we'll all be required to use canisters within 10 years. So much for ultra-light.
A couple years back while camping at an AMC shelter, I was asked the caretaker what he does about bears.
Nothing.
Food was in non-bearproof tins. I asked about where to hang food, he said bears weren't a problem. He said keep a clean campsite and watch out for the mice. (There's a lot to this mice business too.)
I strolled around one of these sites last year and found people cooking right next to their tent, kids leaving scraps of food around, and various oatmeal packet wrappers in various stages of decomposition around the tent platforms.
Apparently bears aren't a big enough problem in the whites yet, at least not at the higher elevation campsites.
I've encountered quite a few bears while hiking, and I'm kinda puzzled why NH doesn't have the same problem that NY and CA have. But I expect that we'll all be required to use canisters within 10 years. So much for ultra-light.
Zer0-G
New member
jfb said:
AAARRRGGGHHHH !!!!!!
I hope you are kidding too.
I tried not to chime in, but the more I read, the less I could contain myself for this matter is close to my heart.
The big reason why we all have to carry bear canisters in the Daks is because people do things with their food just like the picture that started this thread.
I don't know why people would want to do that, really.
(Uh oh- my soapbox is creaking again)
It not only puts the bears in danger, changes their natural lives, but it also puts us humans in danger of possibly facing a usually very shy and beautiful creature face to face which can turn ugly for both parties.
Hanging/protecting your food is not a novelty it is a necessity.
Funny stories about critters in your food? In the long run they are only sad recounts of carelessness and inconsideration.
Assuming you were kidding, I've seen some sad accounts of hanging food. One image I just can't shake is the food bag hanging 4 feet over the top of the individuals tent....drives me batty.
I am sure everyone knows the rules of thumb for bear country, eat 100 feet away from your bed, hang your food 100 feet away from your bed. That nice little triangle?
I'll never forget the "one who shall remain nameless", Nameless because I have blocked every possible memory of them out of my mind, except for this one - thankfully. WHO brought cans of tuna and noodles, with the can opener, from the kitchen drawer, y'know, the big one with the big handle?
Anyway, they were hungry, and I guess really tired, and ....... fill in your own phrase here. Ate in the tent, washed the pot out in the stream, left it out to dry next to the empty tuna can and empty noodle bags right out side the front door of the tent but very carefully placed right on top of the food bag.
Not to continue to beat the dead horse, but I have seen no mention of a very effective method of hanging food.
Requires one 40 foot length of cord, with a small sack at one end. The sack is to put a small rock in to enable you to toss the sack over a branch. The branch need be only 15 or twenty feet above your head. But the higher the better.
At the other end of the rope attach a small carabiner.
Toss the sack over the branch. (Making sure it is at least 6 feet away from the trunk of the tree.)
Run your cord through the 'biner.
Hook your foodbag onto the 'biner.
Hoist the food bag all the way up to the limb.
Reach up the cord as high as you can and make the two requisite opposite facing loops in your cord. (You will become familiar with the clove hitch)
Slip a stick or a tent stake into the two loops and let go of the loops.
You should have a perfect clove hitch around the stick or stake.
let the cord out. When the stake or stick comes in contact with the biner, the food bag should have dropped about 20 percent down from the limb.
You don't need to tie off what is hanging. If you tie it off and a bear gets the cord off the tie off point, it will only hang down anyway. They can't do much with a rope hanging straight down.
You need one tree with one branch.
It's called the Pacific Crest Trail Method.
I'm sure you can look it up somewhere.
I use very lightweight , thin thin parachute cord. "AirCore 2" I believe.
Without being fanatical there are other things you can do to protect all interested parties.
Even if you use a canister, be careful of dropping food on your clothes while eating, When you are snacking on the trail, be careful to clean your hands before fussing with your clothes or pack. Be careful not to expose the inside of your pack or external pack pockets to loose food. The common mistake I see people make all the time is, taking food out of a baggie, chomping away, wiping their hands on their clothes and stuffing the empty baggie in an external pack pocket. Even baggies with food in them, left in a pack all day can transfer odors through the baggie into your pack.
The pack usually then lives in the tent vestibule overnight, or hung on a tree right outside the tent door. with your clothes subbing as a pillow.
You might as well slobber yourself up with peanuT butter and tie yourself to a tree!
Don't forget those water bottles, with gatorade in them...I always keep one clean for plain water. I stick the other 1 liter platy bottles empty at the end of the day in the food bag up in the air or canistered.
I could go on ...but it's late, thankfully. My soapbox just broke and as usual I'm concerned that I've peed some people off.
Pete_Hickey
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First of all, I think the price is dropping, but you have to thing differently.sleeping bear said:I'd like to get a canister, there are just so many other things I'd rather spend a hundred bucks on!
Plan on a big trip, where they are required and/or where grizzlies are a problem. Now, a trip like this has a lot of expenses: airfare, permits, hotels-en-route, shipping of stove, etc. Simply add the cost of the canister to the trip cost, and it doesn't seem as bad. After the trip, you are left with a free canister!
Spending money is just a perception.
