Heated insoles - ThermIC, etc...

[jethro]

A friend of mine recommended heated insoles for winter bike riding, and I figured they would serve well for winter hiking as well. Since I pretty much hike in any conditions with leather boots (I hate plastics with a passion), I wind up using the chemical toe warmers which can get me through a frigid day, but just barely. Thing I hate about the chem warmers is I have to replace them mid-hike which requires taking my gaiters, crampons, and boots off in subzero conditions.

Does anyone here use heated insoles and if so, any recommendations? From my understanding the way it works is they're electrically heated, and attached to a small battery pack which would be velcro strapped to your leg. Here's one manufacturer; I have no idea if they work well or who else makes them:

http://www.therm-ic.com/

 

[DougPaul]

The website leaves me cold.

Almost no useful information.


It sounds to me like you may be unwilling to use proper winter footwear and are trying to get around it by external heaters. Adequate non-plastic winter boots exist. (I own a pair.) IMO, you will be better off using them than hunting for better heaters.

edit: this opinion applies to people with thermally normal feet. If you have a thermal pathology (eg Raynaud's syndrome), external heat may be useful. Treatment might be even better.

Doug

 

[Jeff-B]

I am interested in this product and I did some search to find a local store.
It took a few clicks from the therm-ic site to get to the USA dealer and then onto local stores.
>DISTRIBUTION>USA leads to DalbelloSports
Then click ENTER to site.
>DEALER LOCATOR
then, choose product therm-ic and enter your zipcode.


If seeing and trying is believing, then I plan to go to one of these ski stores to check out.


I use the chem warmers too, and I have very bad feet for cold weather which I need protection for more than just hiking, my icesailing activity requires extreme measures.
I don't plan on letting my get worse either.

Thanks for the tip.

Jeff

 

[Lawn Sale]

No offense, but I have to agree with Doug, I'd just look for a nice pair of boots and some quality socks. I was standing around at Festiglace last year in my leather Danner's at -25° chatting with some folks and my feet were plenty toasty. I think they're 800gm Thinsulate and fit like a glove.

I also have some Lacrosse Icemans, that while not a hiking boot, will almost guarantee your feet will stay warm no matter what the conditions. Their only drawback is they're too big to drive a car in, and they do weigh a little much.

 

[Leenie]

I must lend my support for the heated insoles. I have badly abused feet (previous-multiple frostbites as kid and adult-and Raynauld's) and all the insulation in the world does not keep my feet warm. I would not be out in the winter without my Hotronic's. I use them in an insulated hiking boot,with mountaineer Smartwool's.This year I will get an extra battery pack for longer hikes. They are very good for up to 6-8hrs and have variable 'heat setting'. Do whatever you have to and enjoy the outdoors!

 

[Shewolf]

Leenie,

I've got a friend whose feet get cold quickly and has an entire process of getting her feet ready for hiking before we hit the trails. How much are the heated insoles you have and how much weight do they add? I think she may find heated insoles a solution to her problem, but I'd like to hear your experience and opinion!

 

[Jeff-B]

No offense, but I have to agree with Doug, I'd just look for a nice pair of boots and some quality socks. I was standing around at Festiglace last year in my leather Danner's at -25° chatting with some folks and my feet were plenty toasty. I think they're 800gm Thinsulate and fit like a glove.

I also have some Lacrosse Icemans, that while not a hiking boot, will almost guarantee your feet will stay warm no matter what the conditions. Their only drawback is they're too big to drive a car in, and they do weigh a little much.

Ah, the purist at heart! Understandable.....for any hiking that is.
But for my ICESAILING it's a different story.

Warmer boots are not the problem. My feet sweat, then moisture freezes.
The trick is to maintain a comfy arrangment of thinner dry wool socks/liners.

An important note; these heated sole devices were developed by the downhill skiing industry and for the purpose to fit PLASTIC BOOTS!
So, why is it such a bad idea for winter dayhiking?

If you spent as much time on ICE as I have for the last 25 years, blasting around to speeds of 60+ mph for 6-8 hours a day, then your toes would be damaged as well.
Not to mention my radical childhood activity of floating/jumping icebergs in Salem Harbor....and getting wet..... more sledding, skiing, ect.
I am a winter worlock of radical adventures!

Fortunately, my hands, nose and all other parts of my body are still intact and I have no real problem staying warm in any other respect.

Actually, hiking is not as much of a problem to me as my feet stay warmer with movement. But standing around on ice or snow is what wastes me even in moderate temps.

BTW, I started THIS THREAD a while ago and these things work well for limited time out and are cheap.

I priced out the Thermics at a few local stores, quite expensive at about $180 for the whole system of batteries, soles and recharger. They say it's good for 18 hours before recharging required. That works for me!

Hoping Santa leaves me a Christmas Bonus!

 

[DougPaul]

An important note; these heated sole devices were developed by the downhill skiing industry and for the purpose to fit PLASTIC BOOTS! So, why is it such a bad idea for winter dayhiking?

Why are they a poor idea for winter hiking?

Safety.

* Electrical devices such as this have wires which are constantly flexed as you walk. Sounds pretty likely to break to me. Now you have no heater and inadequate boots.
* You are delayed and your batteries run down. (Or you forgot to recharge them, etc. Whatever--your batteries fail.) Again, no heater and inadequate boots.

Similar arguments apply to the routine use of chemical heat packs in your boots or gloves/mittens.

Failure of the heat source away from civilization due to any of these scenarios is an unnecessary risk of serious cold injury.

The OP, in effect, stated that he was unwilling to wear adequate winter boots and asked for advice on external heat sources to allow him to wear inadequate boots. My advice is to suck-it-up and get adequate footwear--comfortable winter boots do exist, use VBL socks, etc.

The topic here is the use of external heat in the backcountry where there is no warm shelter if you get cold. In downhill skiing, and likely also for many locations iceboating, one has access to warm shelter if there is a gear failure--a different risk profile. (The info from other sports is useful background, but, as noted, the trade-offs are different.)

Caveat: The above reasoning applies to people with thermally normal extremites. If you have thermal pathologies (eg Raynaud's syndrome), my suggestion is that you get it treated and see how well you can do with good gear. If you still need external heat, then you have to judge whether winter outdoor sports are worth the higher risk of discomfort and cold injury. (And the risk also gets extended to the rest of your party if you have to delay them in a bad spot to care for your feet.)

Doug

 

[Jeff-B]

Why are they a poor idea for winter hiking?

Safety.

* Electrical devices such as this have wires which are constantly flexed as you walk. Sounds pretty likely to break to me. Now you have no heater and inadequate boots.
* You are delayed and your batteries run down. (Or you forgot to recharge them, etc. Whatever--your batteries fail.) Again, no heater and inadequate boots.

Similar arguments apply to the routine use of chemical heat packs in your boots or gloves/mittens.

Failure of the heat source away from civilization due to any of these scenarios is an unnecessary risk of serious cold injury.

The OP, in effect, stated that he was unwilling to wear adequate winter boots and asked for advice on external heat sources to allow him to wear inadequate boots. My advice is to suck-it-up and get adequate footwear--comfortable winter boots do exist, use VBL socks, etc.

The topic here is the use of external heat in the backcountry where there is no warm shelter if you get cold. In downhill skiing, and likely also for many locations iceboating, one has access to warm shelter if there is a gear failure--a different risk profile.

Caveat: The above reasoning applies to people with thermally normal extremites. If you have thermal pathologies (eg Raynaud's syndrome), my suggestion is that you get it treated and see how well you can do with good gear. If you still need external heat, then you have to judge whether winter outdoor sports are worth the risk. (And the risk also gets extended to the rest of your party if you have to delay them in a bad spot to care for your feet.)

Doug

Agreed, I would NEVER risk myself, my party or other party as a result of requireing these heater soles and then having them fail.
This is NOT the issue here.
I am fine with my boots for winter travel. What I am talking about here is a "comfort" level and not "dependency" level. Big difference.

You make it sound like one whom used heated foot soles are going to hike into a region and risk others lives as well as our own when the heater fails.
Sure, it could happen, lots of stuff 'could' happen in winter travel.

You are correct that the risk profile is different for the specific use I am mostly interested in. I thought this disscussion was worthy of some input from another source of cold weather activity, for whatever productive use one might make of it.

BTW, these Thermics are used in X-country ski boots which produce quite a lot of flexing, and wired device proves durable enough to withstand years of abuse according to ski dealers I have talked with.

Fear not, you will never need to rescue me if my foot warmers fail.
I got good boots and gear.

 

[Lawn Sale]

There are a number of ice sailers on a nearby lake I frequent for ice skating, those guys move some fast. Looks very interesting, would love to try it, but it also looks expensive, so it'll have to wait for now, other irons are in the fire at the current moment.

Back to the topic, I agree that a medical condition, whether it's Raynaud's syndrome or previous frostbite , will certainly invoke a different response. However, and I don't mean to split hairs here, ice climbing has similar traits to ice sailing in that you are active and then sedentary, which creates a whole host of issues. While on belay, you're standing on ice and not moving, then when climbing, you're exerting a lot of energy, which translates into sweat required for cooling. This is where a VB liner comes into play, as it will only let the sweat accumulate to a certain degree, and then it doesn't anymore in that region (feet, which is where I wear a VB). Thus with proper insulation on the boots, the moist layer will never get chilled due to the proximity to the heat source (your body), which keeps it at a constant temperature. The sweat also never reaches the insulating layer and this it's never compromised from its primary function, to insulate. You mentioned speeds of 60+ mph, which I think is insane , but this should have no effect on the boots as they should be impervious to wind speeds. While there will be some heat loss due to radiational transportation, it should be minimal with adequately insulated footwear. I wear a VB liner with good boots and have never had a problem, but as a disclaimer I'll also add I have never been ice sailing, so I can only theorize on the conditions encountered.

 

[Jeff-B]

There are a number of ice sailers on a nearby lake I frequent for ice skating, those guys move some fast.
[SNIP]
This is where a VB liner comes into play, as it will only let the sweat accumulate to a certain degree, and then it doesn't anymore in that region (feet, which is where I wear a VB). Thus with proper insulation on the boots, the moist layer will never get chilled due to the proximity to the heat source (your body), which keeps it at a constant temperature. The sweat also never reaches the insulating layer and this it's never compromised from its primary function, to insulate.

You mentioned speeds of 60+ mph, which I think is insane

Lawnsale:
I have never tried a VB and I am interested after reading your explanation.
In fact, I am interested in ANYTHING people can suggest to keep feet warm.
Your iceclimbing belay example sounds similar to our icesailing breaks.

About the speed and icesailing: My boots are impervious to wind speeds as I have Goretex XCR type and wear gaitors over the top cuff to seal out windflow. But at those speeds, wind sneaks in many other areas of clothing, neck ect., so I only mentioned the issue for better understanding of how extreme the conditons overall can be.
Imagine driving a convertable on the highway with the top down....and NO windshield either.....in full on winter cold weather....you get the idea.
BTW, we use GPS to measure our speeds and have awards for "Mile-A-Minute" for sailors who break 60mph.
I got a few of them, but 64.5 is my best.

 

[DougPaul]

Lawnsale:
I have never tried a VB and I am interested after reading your explanation.
In fact, I am interested in ANYTHING people can suggest to keep feet warm.

Dave.m has a nice write-up on the use of VBLs http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/vb.txt including VBL socks. A friend of mine with cool feet uses them successfully.

Back in winter school, we had the students use Mouse boots (syn Micky Mouse boots, K-boots, Korean boots) made for the military. May be hard to get these days (and there are some dangerously inadequate imitations). Rubber inside, felt insulating middle layer, and rubber outside. The insulation was sealed inside and couldn't get wet unless you wore a hole in the boot. The ultimate VBL. Very warm and goof-proof. Great for walking through streams. Rather flexible--not much support. If you were careful, you could fit crampons. Still have a pair, but they have been sidelined by my leather double boots.

About the speed and icesailing

At high speeds, wind will get into anything not hermetically sealed...

Doug

 

[Lawn Sale]

Here is a good site with an explanation on VB's. It, along with other research, was the final factor in trying them out, and while I'm not fully on board for the whole VB clothing, the socks certainly hold their own and I love them. I'm also not sure I'm on board for the sleeping bag liner, but I'm willing to try it out while car camping (so I have a backup).

Jeff-B, you're right in that I don't have the wind chill to contend with, any exposed skin in your case would certainly freeze very fast.