Hiker Rescue in the Pemi

[sierra]

Not to speak for SF, but the new age of technology lends to the feeling of preparedness, that can be misleading to anovice. Having a spot is a great tool, pushing your limits beyond your capabilities because you have is not the idea behind it.

 

[egilbe]

Not to speak for SF, but the new age of technology lends to the feeling of preparedness, that can be misleading to anovice. Having a spot is a great tool, pushing your limits beyond your capabilities because you have is not the idea behind it.

But that seems to be the purpose of a SPOT, no? Its a get out of jail free card for boneheads. I hope this gentleman learned something from his experience and doesn't repeat it.

 

[peakbagger]

So was this a non chargeable rescue, a rescue covered by the Hike Safe Card (negligent) or reckless?

Here is the Hike Safe definition
What is the difference between when someone is deemed to have acted negligently or recklessly?
•A person acts negligently when he or she acts in such a way that deviates from the way a reasonable person would act under similar circumstances.
•A person acts recklessly when he or she engages in highly unreasonable conduct, involving an extreme departure from ordinary care, in a situation where a high degree of danger is apparent.

 

[jfb]

What confuses me is that he supposedly had appropriate gear for the conditions, yet was unable to stay warm. How could his gear have been appropriate?

http://nhpr.org/post/massachusetts-man-rescued-pemigewasset-wilderness

 

[DayTrip]

I'm curious, why would the SPOT add to the uneasiness you felt? I only ask because mine is always "conspicuously dangling" from my packs shoulder strap.

Me too. Needs to be conspicuously dangling or it doesn't work worth a crap.

 

[DayTrip]

But that seems to be the purpose of a SPOT, no? Its a get out of jail free card for boneheads. I hope this gentleman learned something from his experience and doesn't repeat it.

Excuse me? All SPOT owners are boneheads?

 

[sierra]

What confuses me is that he supposedly had appropriate gear for the conditions, yet was unable to stay warm. How could his gear have been appropriate?

http://nhpr.org/post/massachusetts-man-rescued-pemigewasset-wilderness

Having the appropriate gear is one thing. Knowing how to use it in variable and difficult conditions is another. You could walk into any climbing store, grab a clerk and say, suit me up for Mt. Washington in the winter. Walk out of the store with the best gear and clothes you could buy. But if you've never winter hiked before, all that gear ain't going to make it a safe climb.

 

[egilbe]

Excuse me? All SPOT owners are boneheads?

I didn't say all spot owners were boneheads. How many people actually use it?

 

[nartreb]

I'm curious, why would the SPOT add to the uneasiness you felt? I only ask because mine is always "conspicuously dangling" from my packs shoulder strap.

Seemed clear enough to me:

maybe it was the SPOT device conspicuously dangling from his pack coupled with his naiveté

SPOT-buying first, map-reading later? That's a bit like buying a new helmet before driving a moped on a six-lane highway. Somebody who probably should turn around at the first chance, but probably won't.

 

[una_dogger]

But that seems to be the purpose of a SPOT, no? Its a get out of jail free card for boneheads. I hope this gentleman learned something from his experience and doesn't repeat it.

I've used a SPOT for a few years, and I don't think I'm a bonehead.

Most of us have done stupid stuff in the woods....hike long enough and you will have memories of "when I did that and BOY was I lucky". What separates an epic "holy cow" learning experience from serious trouble is usually only a matter of degrees, literally in this case, the temperature was probably the largest contributing factor.

Glad the guy is OK and I'm sure he has learned quite a bit from the experience.

 

[egilbe]

I've used a SPOT for a few years, and I don't think I'm a bonehead.

Most of us have done stupid stuff in the woods....hike long enough and you will have memories of "when I did that and BOY was I lucky". What separates an epic "holy cow" learning experience from serious trouble is usually only a matter of degrees, literally in this case, the temperature was probably the largest contributing factor.

Glad the guy is OK and I'm sure he has learned quite a bit from the experience.

But did you actually press the button and call for help, or do you, like the majority of the people, just carry the extra weight?

 

[una_dogger]

But did you actually press the button and call for help, or do you, like the majority of the people, just carry the extra weight?

I've fortunatley never had to. But, if I were laying soaking wet, exhausted, and shivering uncontrollably in a tent due to my own lapse in judgment and conundrum, YES I'd push that button! (However I'd consider one of my text message options that alert a few locals to my whereabouts and signal a "I need some help getting out of here on my own" without SAR)


Go ahead and judge away....

 

[egilbe]

I've fortunatley never had to. But, if I were laying soaking wet, exhausted, and shivering uncontrollably in a tent due to my own lapse in judgment and conundrum, YES I'd push that button! (However I'd consider one of my text message options that alert a few locals to my whereabouts and signal a "I need some help getting out of here on my own" without SAR)


Go ahead and judge away....

Haha no judging here. I tend to avoid getting into situations where i have to rely on an electronic device to save my butt. It didnt help Kate Matrasova any.

 

[una_dogger]

Glad he is okay!



As with what seems like too many folks we meet in the Whites lately, this encounter left us with that niggling "I hope he's all right" feeling. But what can you do?? "

Me too...me too. You can't really do anything other than what we do, give some informative/non judgemental advice, and try to size up from what they say and what you see visually and hope for the best!

 

[una_dogger]

Haha no judging here. I tend to avoid getting into situations where i have to rely on an electronic device to save my butt. It didnt help Kate Matrasova any.

The same arguments were being made when GPS became popular, "are you really bushwalking if you use a GPS". People are at their free will to determine what gear or devices they use. I'm very happy to have the SPOT for the sole purpose of reassurance to my loved ones that if I were in danger, its there. Their assurance level is worth alot to me. I hope to never deploy it.

This poor fellow was on the right track in many regards, he had the knowledge enough to know he needed "stuff" but perhaps didn't take advantage of his tent and keeping dry in a timely fashion. I think the same can be said of most of us when we are hiking, we have stuff we know we may need, but how often do we ever have to use it?

I remember going on an overnight in the DAKS about 20 years ago where there was some rain predicted in the overnight, nothing crazy.I was just doing a big 20 mile Indian Pass/Calamity/Lake Colden/Avalalanche Pass loop and no peaks. I was in my tent on time to stay dry overnight, but a simple July thunderstorm turned into a deluge that stumped the forecasters, leaving me and probably most people in the High Peaks region stranded a bit while water levels everywhere came down. The difference between me having a fun adventure and being up S's creek like this gentleman was the time of year and temperature.

Happy trails

 

[sierra]

Haha no judging here. I tend to avoid getting into situations where i have to rely on an electronic device to save my butt. It didnt help Kate Matrasova any.

If you climb long enough and often enough, one day you will find yourself in a precarious situation. Sometimes it's the weather, sometimes it's the conditions, the mountains can offer up a variety of ways to ruin your day. I don't carry a SPOT, but it's a tool, like a compass, GPS or any other piece of gear, the choice is yours what you choose to carry. Personally, I think referring to Kate is a bad example of most situations we encounter. Kind of like saying, I'm not going boating because I saw that movie "The perfect storm".

 

[iAmKrzys]

He said he was "not familiar with that route," so we spent a few minutes describing routes and options.

I often go places I have never been to and I can't claim being familiar with, however, I always study maps and trail descriptions ahead of my hike if I can find them.

 

[Raven]

So was this a non chargeable rescue, a rescue covered by the Hike Safe Card (negligent) or reckless?

Here is the Hike Safe definition
What is the difference between when someone is deemed to have acted negligently or recklessly?
•A person acts negligently when he or she acts in such a way that deviates from the way a reasonable person would act under similar circumstances.
•A person acts recklessly when he or she engages in highly unreasonable conduct, involving an extreme departure from ordinary care, in a situation where a high degree of danger is apparent.

I'll take a stab.

Non chargeable rescue. He had appropriate gear according to the article. And IMO, he acted in manner that was not negligent. A reasonable person who found themselves in the beginning stages of hypothermia would do just as he did. Get in a bag in a tent if you have it and attempt to stay dry and get warm.

Did he possibly make some bad decisions? Maybe he showed a lack of good judgment by continuing in the rain? Maybe so. But negligence is not the same as making bad decisions. You can make bad decisions that are not at the level of negligence.

Personally, I would not have chosen to plan an overnight bushwhack trip with rain planned, but with appropriate gear for the conditions, I would not deem it negligent. If he had no raingear, then yes, negligent. Considering he was unable to stay warm, he may not have been familiar with the best way to use that gear to his best advantage. Hypothermia comes on fast and without a lot of warning sometimes. Maybe he pushed 10 minutes past that chilly place we have all been. Hard to come back from that if you let yourself get too cold. My guess is they won't consider charging for this one. One man's opinion.

 

[una_dogger]

I often go places I have never been to and I can't claim being familiar with, however, I always study maps and trail descriptions ahead of my hike if I can find them.

If I'm reading Stinky Feet's post correctly, I think the route that he was unfamiliar with was the Black Pond BW, not a trail or described in the AMC guide, and not his intended route, but their route as they related it to him?

 

[DayTrip]

If I'm reading Stinky Feet's post correctly, I think the route that he was unfamiliar with was the Black Pond BW, not a trail or described in the AMC guide, and not his intended route, but their route as they related it to him?

That is also how I interpreted it. He knew the trails he wanted to use but when advised of the problem crossings and the BW bushwhack was discussed he did not know about it. Being familiar with bushwhacks is probably not very common to hikers outside of those who belong to forums like VFTT (i.e. experienced hikers). When I started seriously hiking about 4 years ago I didn't even know what a bushwhack or herd path was, let alone what all the popular ones were. I suspect most hikers you pass on the trails fall into that category. I wouldn't consider that negligent. He had a map, he knew the proper trails he needed to follow his route and he was equipped.