James Kim and a hell of a fight

[blownaway]

It brought tears to my eyes when I found out about the stocked cabin nearby had James traveled in a different direction. He was a hero and put up a hell of a fight with the resources given. My prayers go out to his family. I have learned from this tragety and I'm sure many others have as well.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16089354/

 

[ChrisB]

I too think he showed remarkable common sense and patience.

He stayed put for six days waiting to be found.

I wonder how many of us would show that much restraint (and faith) before deciding we had to leave the car to save our own bacon.

cb

 

[bridgeman]

The real question is, did he unnecesarily put his family in harms way?

Tragic nontheless.

 

[NewHampshire]

When I heard they had found his pants I knew then "hypothermia got him." When your close to the end your body starts feeling warm, and of course with the mental state one is in, you start stripping clothes off......it was then I knew it was too late. But at least some of the family made it.

Brian

 

[JohnL]

The linked MSNBC report says he was fully clothed. News reports on the tele indicated that he took an extra pair of pants with him when he left the car.

JohnL

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I heard (my wife read aloud to me that) he took extra "stuff" from the car to use to mark a trail.

Tim

 

[blownaway]

long wait....before hiking out.

The question that I keep asking myself is....Wouldn't it have made sense to scout the nearby areas in the first few days?

Something like:

Day 1. Wait for help in car with family.

Day 2. Hike north a mile or so, then return to car. Rest/warm up, then go south a mile or so, return to car.

Day 3. Repeat, doing an east and west hike.

He put all his eggs in one basket by heading in one direction after waiting several days.

To answer my own question. He figured he only had a 4 mile walk to the next town according to his map ....why risk continuing on in a different direction with no signs of civilization for quite a few miles.

 

[bubba]

Tragic. I hated hearing about this as well. The one thing that I keep questioning are reports that they read the map wrong - more than once? But he felt that he could head to the river and follow it down (level headed thinking). I think I would have tried harder to orient myself in the four days of waiting - well he probably thought he had, huh?

I'm also having trouble understanding the S&R teams not hitting roadways. I know I wouldn't have thought (well maybe) to burn tires for warmth and smoke. But what/where were they looking that they missed them at a fork in the road??

Also, I noted that the MSN advise further down the page was lacking. Under "what to keep in your car" they neglected to list: blanket, extra clothes, candles, matches and food. Maybe we live closer to snow emergencies here in western New York, but that's annual survival car fare in our family cars (well, we could get stuck on an expressway and not get home for days!!).

Anyway, very heroic - both parents. What a tragic loss.

 

[NewHampshire]

The linked MSNBC report says he was fully clothed. News reports on the tele indicated that he took an extra pair of pants with him when he left the car.

JohnL

Ahhh perhaps that is where the pair of pants they found in a ravine came from. Thanks.

Brian

 

[Raymond]

I heard or read that the road had been gated, and some unknown person(s) cut the lock.

My question is, why are they always found "face down in a stream"? Trying to cool off?

 

[TomD]

Saw a follow-up on this story on our local tv news here in CA. The person who ultimately found him with his own helicopter remembered a similar incident on the same road from eleven years ago. They interviewed the wife of the guy who was lost. He got stuck on the same road in a camper and survived for two months before dying of starvation. He left a diary of what happened to him, so that's how they know how long he lasted. The helo pilot remembered that and went out and found James Kim.

Part of the problem is that the map Kim had did not show that the road would be snowbound in winter and someone had cut the lock on the gate that was supposed to close the road. He expected the road to take them to the coast and in summer, it would have.

There is a thread on one of The Lightweight Backpacker forums with links to news accounts. www.backpacking.net

 

[CaptCaper]

Sad

It's the same old story. A series of events that will lead to your death. Not usually one incident. Gate unlocked,lost,bad maps,take a chance and guess what to do next,etc.

Staying with the car might have eliminated some of those. But after 6 days I might have done the same.

Short scouting out hikes might have helped I agree. But he probably didn't have winter clothes and boots and should have kept to the car and heat. Ten miles isn't far for a young guy to go.

 

[JohnL]

My question is, why are they always found "face down in a stream"? Trying to cool off?

From the MSNBC article:
He was found fully clothed on his back in Big Windy Creek near the Rogue River, authorities said.

JohnL

 

[dug]

The real question is, did he unnecesarily put his family in harms way?

Tragic nontheless.

How did he unnecesarily put his family in harms way?

 

[HAMTERO]

I'd say trying to drive a mtn road in a snowstorm with no winter clothes, equipment, and not enough gas are a few ways he got his family into trouble.
HOWEVER, I have made quite a few mistakes and got by with it by luck so i'm not judging him. Besides you can't tell what really happened from the internet reports.

 

[DougPaul]

I'd say trying to drive a mtn road in a snowstorm with no winter clothes, equipment, and not enough gas are a few ways he got his family into trouble.
HOWEVER, I have made quite a few mistakes and got by with it by luck so i'm not judging him. Besides you can't tell what really happened from the internet reports.

And, of course, we have no idea how many have successfully driven similar roads in similar conditions and have not ended up in the news.

It isn't that hard to get on a narrow road with no place to turn around...

Doug

 

[SAR-EMT40]

It isn't that hard to get on a narrow road with no place to turn around...
Doug

I'm in no way speaking ill of this man. I have no doubt he was doing what he thought was the only hope his family had and I feel very badly for him and his family. It was a tragedy.

Saying that, I have never heard of anyone dying because they failed "backing up" in their drivers ed class. Everyone knows how to do it. Why don't they?

This is a human brain "problem". Most have it. There is always the tendency to ignore the danger ahead and disregard what you know was behind you. As a species this has made us very succesful. We inhabit every corner of the planet from north to south and east to west. We are actually talking about leaving this planet and colonizing other worlds just so our species should survive just in case this little marble we ride on is wiped out. I am sure there would be no lack of volunteers. Hell, I'd volunteer. But it is a risky brain wiring that makes most of us think like that. When in a survival situation turning around or backing up makes good sense. I understand it is not easy to do. I have seen it happen in others and in myself.

Like someone already mentioned. It is almost never a single event but a chain of events. Break one link in that chain and the death would likely have not occured.

I also do not think we have heard the whole story on this yet. We have already learned that a mistake made in the mapping program in the location of the vehicle, I believe means that he traveled 16 miles not the 10 that was originally reported. This wasn't a press error this time though.

Keith

 

[jessbee]

Sad
But he probably didn't have winter clothes and boots and kept to the car and heat. Ten miles isn't far for a young guy to go is it?

Sure, 10 miles is no biggie, when you're prepared for it, you know where you're going, and aren't under extreme physical and emotional stress. This is such an awful, awful story.

It hits home to me because now I'm living out here and the roads get much worse than they do back home (New England). I will now take major precautions before driving anywhere near the mountains this winter--including lots of extra food, blankets, snow chains, maps etc... it's just a whole different ballgame. There have been several stories of people getting trapped already this year, and winter hasn't even officially arrived. I certainly won't be driving down any rinky-dink forest roads.

But like some of you have said, it takes a bunch of little decisions adding up to make a big mess. This guy did what he thought was the best he could to try and save his family. At least there are 3 survivors coming out of this story.

 

[DougPaul]

It isn't that hard to get on a narrow road with no place to turn around...

This statement was both literal and metaphorical.

I have never heard of anyone dying because they failed "backing up" in their drivers ed class. Everyone knows how to do it. Why don't they?

Read, for instance: http://www.gdargaud.net/Climbing/Utah.html#Shortcut
This one looked good on the map too...
(No fatalities this time, but they could easily have been stuck in a survival situation.)

In both situations above, there was presumably a significant amount of uncertainty--neither appears to have known what the road conditions ahead were.

This is a human brain "problem". Most have it. There is always the tendency to ignore the danger ahead and disregard what you know was behind you.

Agreed, people can become sufficiently goal oriented that they don't carefully evaluate a developing situation. Peak baggers have been known to suffer from this affliction, sometimes fatally... For example, there are several instances described in the first chaper in "No Shortcuts to the Top", by Viesturs and Roberts. [/QUOTE]

Uncertainty about what lies ahead is often a factor here too.

Doug

 

[HAMTERO]

CNN Special

CNN will have a James Kim Special Report tonite at 8pm.