Making lemonade

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sierra

Well-known member
Joined
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Location
New hampshire
While many of the hiking community is in mourning over the current "winter" conditions, I am not. Me and my sidekick the Boy Wonder, do not care for deep snow and love these boney to bare conditions. Our top priority this winter is the 5 VT 4ks and we start Jan 1st with Mt. Mansfield. WE will do them all as day hikes.
 
Although I do miss the usual deep snow backcountry XC skiing in my area, I do not miss the necessity of skiing on two miles of highly active snowmobile trail with endless parades of 70mph machines whizzing by me as I ski on the side of the unplowed road/trail to take me 3/4 of the way toward my isolated cabin to shovel and save my roof from the heavy load. I'm in the highest lake effect snowfall area of the Tug Hill Plateau NY off the eastern end of Lake Ontario. I'd rather have the first half of the winter like this than to take that risky noisy smelly trail several times each winter season. i'm sure I'll get plenty of action to enjoy yet this season.

pic from a previous year (typical)
1703888797757.png
 
Although I do miss the usual deep snow backcountry XC skiing in my area, I do not miss the necessity of skiing on two miles of highly active snowmobile trail with endless parades of 70mph machines whizzing by me as I ski on the side of the unplowed road/trail to take me 3/4 of the way toward my isolated cabin to shovel and save my roof from the heavy load. I'm in the highest lake effect snowfall area of the Tug Hill Plateau NY off the eastern end of Lake Ontario. I'd rather have the first half of the winter like this than to take that risky noisy smelly trail several times each winter season. i'm sure I'll get plenty of action to enjoy yet this season.

pic from a previous year (typical)
View attachment 7505
I am very jealous; I would love a remote cabin like that. That is a snow load for sure.
 
Although I do miss the usual deep snow backcountry XC skiing in my area, I do not miss the necessity of skiing on two miles of highly active snowmobile trail with endless parades of 70mph machines whizzing by me as I ski on the side of the unplowed road/trail to take me 3/4 of the way toward my isolated cabin to shovel and save my roof from the heavy load. I'm in the highest lake effect snowfall area of the Tug Hill Plateau NY off the eastern end of Lake Ontario. I'd rather have the first half of the winter like this than to take that risky noisy smelly trail several times each winter season. i'm sure I'll get plenty of action to enjoy yet this season.

pic from a previous year (typical)
View attachment 7505
For that neck of the woods that actually looks quite lean.
 
For that neck of the woods that actually looks quite lean.
I don't remember if this photo was the first, second, third, or fourth roof shoveling of the season. it is a an old (>50 yrs) cabin hand built by my father without power tools and I may go more there in winter often than absolutely necessary after heavy lake effect snowfalls to ensure it is still standing. I never know when there is also a thick once partially melted heavy ice layer under the snow adding to the weight.

Here is another view of heavy compacted roof snow.
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I don't remember if this photo was the first, second, third, or fourth roof shoveling of the season. it is a an old (>50 yrs) cabin hand built by my father without powere tools and I may go more there in winter often than absolutely necessary after heavy lake effect snowfalls to ensure it is still standing. I never know when there is also a thick once partially melted heavy ice layer under the snow adding to the weight.

Here is another view of heavy compacted roof snow.
View attachment 7509

View attachment 7510
That looks more like it! I went to College in The Southern Tier of NY and traveled up through this area a lot on the way to The ADK and this reminds me more of the Biblical Proportions that can occur there. Situations on a roof like that can be like a mini glacier and represent a snapshot of the layers in the existing snowpack. I have steel on my roof and it makes for some interesting photos.
 

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I have steel on my roof and it makes for some interesting photos.
I do have a steel roof, quite old, with multiple layers of protective aluminum asphalt coatings, making it somewhat rough and easy for a first layer of ice to stick instead of sliding off. I believe it was around 1977 when this area received as much as 400 inches of snow that season, and often receives well over 4 feet of snow from any single storm. Search Youtube for a video from 1939 of snowplowing this area of Tug Hill, Montague NY, as i also remember it growing up in the 1950-60s.

Side story with the roof. One summer when I was recoating it, I was carefully coating the roof as I was carrying a 5 gal bucket of thick aluminumized coating, almost half full when I must have stepped on a missed drop of the stuff and my feet went out from under me. This just after I had just dismantled the old crumbling cinder block chimney wiith the chunks of concrete thrown on the ground below. As I looked down at my landing point, guess what I saw under me. In what seemed like slow motion, I had only two thoughts as I descended: "how many bones?" and I need to do my best ever PLF (parachute landing fall) that I only briefly practiced when it was taught during A.F. flight crew training. So I landed and rolled in the concrete rubble and then stood up, a little surprised that I could stand. But I looked like the tin man head to foot from the spillage in the bucket that came with me.
 
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Twenty one years ago CREL and a group of structural engineers in NH released a study on ground snow loads for all the towns in NH. Prior to the study man not the rural towns in NH did not have specific snow load recommendations and in general builders built to a low standard, usually at most 40 pound per square foot. The results of the study were that in some rare cases the 40 PSF standard was less than half the potential snow load. Randolph was right up there for snow load in towns that actually had residents. https://erdc-library.erdc.dren.mil/jspui/bitstream/11681/5391/1/CRREL-TR-02-6.pdf I wonder what the loads would be in the areas with lake effect in western NY?

Some of the older buildings in the Berlin pulp mill were designed for 10 pounds per square foot. They were flat roofs but had no insulation in them, the assumption was that they were heated and the snow would melt. As an engineer there I was usually on the list to answer the annual panicked phone calls from managers concerned about roof collapses after a big snow fall. Lots of folks got overtime shoveling off roofs. Most of them made it through 100 plus years of snowfalls but didn't survive the wrecking ball. I have far less faith that the remains of the papermill will make it to planned demolition.

The reality is almost all roof collapses rarely are design issues, they are construction mistakes or lack of maintenance that usually take them down.
 
While many of the hiking community is in mourning over the current "winter" conditions, I am not. Me and my sidekick the Boy Wonder, do not care for deep snow and love these boney to bare conditions. Our top priority this winter is the 5 VT 4ks and we start Jan 1st with Mt. Mansfield. WE will do them all as day hikes.
You were one of the first people I thought of with the snow drought. Your stick season got extended!
 
I don't completely disagree with Sierra. I just like it to be cold first and foremost. It is great to be able to see through the woods when there are no leaves and no snow, and bushwhacking is great in those conditions. What I dislike is constant water/wetness everywhere. If we aren't going to get snow, then I certainly do not want rain. But I do want to be able to XC and snowmobile so some snow is nice. The season is so short now.
 
I don't remember if this photo was the first, second, third, or fourth roof shoveling of the season. it is a an old (>50 yrs) cabin hand built by my father without power tools and I may go more there in winter often than absolutely necessary after heavy lake effect snowfalls to ensure it is still standing. I never know when there is also a thick once partially melted heavy ice layer under the snow adding to the weight.

Here is another view of heavy compacted roof snow.
View attachment 7509

View attachment 7510
I was born in New Hartford NY in 1968 and lived near Clinton until I was 7, and storms dropping multiple feet of snow were the rule, not the exception. In September road crews would put up snow fencing along all the fields, and we had enough snow to snowmobile by my birthday (Nov 8.) It usually took 2 or 3 days for the snowplows to reach us, so snowmobiles were the primary means of transportation at times. I can remember the 3 kids (I’m the oldest) shoveling the driveway with my mom, and her getting angry because the plow driver wouldn’t raise his wing and plowed a huge windrow at the end of the driveway. So when she’d hear the plow coming she’d run out to start our 68 Chevelle (just a boring old 6-cyl 😂) and back it to the bottom of the driveway to make the plow raise the wing.
 

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It is interesting to see our expectations of snowfall.

I came across a story in the Burlington Free Press from 1955, which stated the average annual snowfall for that city was 60 inches. It is now, depending on the source, 72 to 86 inches, depending on the source. That's a massive increase.

What changed? It started getting very snowy in the 1960s, including the first 100 inch winter on record (dating back to at least 1892). Amazingly, Burlington has had five 100+ inch winters since 2000.
 
It is interesting to see our expectations of snowfall.

I came across a story in the Burlington Free Press from 1955, which stated the average annual snowfall for that city was 60 inches. It is now, depending on the source, 72 to 86 inches, depending on the source. That's a massive increase.

What changed? It started getting very snowy in the 1960s, including the first 100 inch winter on record (dating back to at least 1892). Amazingly, Burlington has had five 100+ inch winters since 2000.

According to the NWS, Burlington received over 80 inches of snowfall in the 1954-55 season and 72 inches last year.

https://www.weather.gov/btv/historicalSnow
 
It is interesting to see our expectations of snowfall.

I came across a story in the Burlington Free Press from 1955, which stated the average annual snowfall for that city was 60 inches. It is now, depending on the source, 72 to 86 inches, depending on the source. That's a massive increase.

What changed? It started getting very snowy in the 1960s, including the first 100 inch winter on record (dating back to at least 1892). Amazingly, Burlington has had five 100+ inch winters since 2000.
I am no meteorologist but is it possible it has something to do with the ice coverage on Lake Champlain? Here is a bit of data that might be better analyzed by statistician? Dates of Lake Champlain Closing
 
It's a similar story with some other northeast NWS locations. For instance, in Albany, New York, the 1900-1959 average was 48.9 inches, while the 1960-2022 average was 61.8 inches.
https://www.weather.gov/media/aly/Climate/ALY_Seasonal_Snowfall_Totals.pdf
I cannot recall the source now, I do believe that there was a change in how snowfall was measured at some point. Something like after a storm vs periodic measurements during a storm. Settlement/consolidation could account for small differences in the totals.
Maybe somebody knows for sure if I am off my rocker or if there is some truth to this.
 
I believe the change was made so that official measurments are taken on a flat board out in the open. The board is measured for snow depth and then scraped each hour to accumulate uncompressed snow depth each hour. If it is not done this way and allowed to accumulate in total, the snow compresses itself and the total is not a true measurement. The Tug Hill area of NY lost out a few years ago on officially having the hightest 3-day snowfall in the east (was it 70 or 90 inches?) vs some station out west due to a change in the way official measurements were taken and recorded.
 
I believe the change was made so that official measurments are taken on a flat board out in the open. The board is measured for snow depth and then scraped each hour to accumulate uncompressed snow depth each hour. If it is not done this way and allowed to accumulate in total, the snow compresses itself and the total is not a true measurement. The Tug Hill area of NY lost out a few years ago on officially having the hightest 3-day snowfall in the east (was it 70 or 90 inches?) vs some station out west due to a change in the way official measurements were taken and recorded.
Thanks for confirming my sanity Nessmuk. I grew up near the Tug and recall those storms.
 
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