rhihn
New member
I think the poster of the info mentioned that he and the ranger had a chuckle over enforcement!oldfogie said:
Have cannisters for rent (like they do snowshoes) at the Loj.[/QUOTE]
I believe they do this now.
Q on bears
- Thread starter rup
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Have cannisters for rent (like they do snowshoes) at the Loj.[/QUOTE]
I believe they do this now.
B
Brownie
Guest
The aging "Yosemite Piñata"
I just returned from a trip to the Sierras in California (my 2nd in 25yrs), where the bears are in fact the smartest and fearless in the world at breaking into food storage methods.
Hung food? They get airborne form tree limbs to snatch it.
The big joke is called a “Yosemite Piñata”.
Yosemite Park has the most intense bear deterrent system in the world as well to combat the situation, second to none.
There are bear lockers nearly everywhere in the Valley and its a good thing these intelligent creatures don't have coordinated thumbs!
All trail head and visitor parking has strict enforcements for owners to remove every crumb in your car and to lock it up in the provided storage lockers. Scary thing to note each one is covered with huge claw marks too!
Enforcement? They tow and impound your car if a bear even tries to get in.
In the backcountry, popular tent sites have community, foundation mounted steel lockers and although rather ugly, its not TOO hard to realize the peace of mind that your stuff is secured for certain.
Elsewhere in the backcountry, bear canisters are required and only solid approved ones at that.
We went to a backcountry site where we knew we could use the lockers, but we also happened to have soft bear bags made from high tech, tear proof Kevlar & Spectra fabrics.
(NOTE: Not approved in Yosemite, but were not restricted at previous location in Kings Canyon)
The Yosemite ranger explains this to me:
“Don’t go past here with those non approved units” $250 fine ..or something.
“Just so you know, the bear will chew your tie line, walk off with your bag and sink it in the river, squeeze the bag and then drink the juice….”
Humm, I certainly did not think of that! Kind of a nutty flavored everlasting gobstopper!
These rangers are quite serious about the issue, were packing guns and would have arrested you if you failed to cooperate. Tickets? They don’t even bother with that, they write you up with a citation to appear in court! And they have one conveniently in the Valley of course.
No identification? No problem, they will escort you to your vehicle.
25 years ago, that was not the case. We practiced food hanging each night with the counter weight method and had no problems over the entire summer during a John Muir Trail through-hike.
Neighboring backpackers were not so lucky and had food taken.
We saw one hiker with a shredded backpack from a daytime encounter.
I have just read about another exact same experience last week.
He couldn’t photograph it, camera was in the pack…
So, now the time has come for bears to up the anti for us humans to provide deterrents.
This is not a public forum for people to decide the issue, it’s the bears land to do whatever it wants to!
You should read the “Bear’s Bill Of Rights” displayed in most Yosemite backcountry outhouse compounds and bulletin boards.
Among several humorous ones are; “a bear has its right to climb any tree in the forest, anytime it wants, even if your food is hung”
Sure, some people perhaps have been irresponsible in proper food storage.
But sooner or later bears will figure out hung food methods not matter how well you perform the task. Yosemite is living proof of that experiment and we should be thankful of the lessons learned.
Take it to heart, buy and use canisters where required.
You’ll sleep better at night, and at worst you might just get that close-up picture as a bear practices “try-outs” for the local soccer team on your stash!
I heard some great stories out west this past trip. Keep the cameras ready!
Jeff
I just returned from a trip to the Sierras in California (my 2nd in 25yrs), where the bears are in fact the smartest and fearless in the world at breaking into food storage methods.
Hung food? They get airborne form tree limbs to snatch it.
The big joke is called a “Yosemite Piñata”.
Yosemite Park has the most intense bear deterrent system in the world as well to combat the situation, second to none.
There are bear lockers nearly everywhere in the Valley and its a good thing these intelligent creatures don't have coordinated thumbs!
All trail head and visitor parking has strict enforcements for owners to remove every crumb in your car and to lock it up in the provided storage lockers. Scary thing to note each one is covered with huge claw marks too!
Enforcement? They tow and impound your car if a bear even tries to get in.
In the backcountry, popular tent sites have community, foundation mounted steel lockers and although rather ugly, its not TOO hard to realize the peace of mind that your stuff is secured for certain.
Elsewhere in the backcountry, bear canisters are required and only solid approved ones at that.
We went to a backcountry site where we knew we could use the lockers, but we also happened to have soft bear bags made from high tech, tear proof Kevlar & Spectra fabrics.
(NOTE: Not approved in Yosemite, but were not restricted at previous location in Kings Canyon)
The Yosemite ranger explains this to me:
“Don’t go past here with those non approved units” $250 fine ..or something.
“Just so you know, the bear will chew your tie line, walk off with your bag and sink it in the river, squeeze the bag and then drink the juice….”
Humm, I certainly did not think of that! Kind of a nutty flavored everlasting gobstopper!
These rangers are quite serious about the issue, were packing guns and would have arrested you if you failed to cooperate. Tickets? They don’t even bother with that, they write you up with a citation to appear in court! And they have one conveniently in the Valley of course.
No identification? No problem, they will escort you to your vehicle.
25 years ago, that was not the case. We practiced food hanging each night with the counter weight method and had no problems over the entire summer during a John Muir Trail through-hike.
Neighboring backpackers were not so lucky and had food taken.
We saw one hiker with a shredded backpack from a daytime encounter.
I have just read about another exact same experience last week.
He couldn’t photograph it, camera was in the pack…
So, now the time has come for bears to up the anti for us humans to provide deterrents.
This is not a public forum for people to decide the issue, it’s the bears land to do whatever it wants to!
You should read the “Bear’s Bill Of Rights” displayed in most Yosemite backcountry outhouse compounds and bulletin boards.
Among several humorous ones are; “a bear has its right to climb any tree in the forest, anytime it wants, even if your food is hung”
Sure, some people perhaps have been irresponsible in proper food storage.
But sooner or later bears will figure out hung food methods not matter how well you perform the task. Yosemite is living proof of that experiment and we should be thankful of the lessons learned.
Take it to heart, buy and use canisters where required.
You’ll sleep better at night, and at worst you might just get that close-up picture as a bear practices “try-outs” for the local soccer team on your stash!
I heard some great stories out west this past trip. Keep the cameras ready!
Jeff
TCD
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All good points. The same theme keeps coming up: enforcement.
To the point of my PMing friend: yes, canisters DO work. But unenforced canister regulations do NOT work. Virtually none of the other common sense regs are consistently enforced now, due to lack of resources. I don't see how this one will be different, long term, after a flurry of initial enforcement.
Of course, if I camp in the Eastern High Peaks, I will follow the canister regulation, like I follow the other unenforced regulations. But I'm one person. The focus for the overall problem solving effort needs to be education and enforcement, and the state should provide the resources to accomplish that.
To the point of my PMing friend: yes, canisters DO work. But unenforced canister regulations do NOT work. Virtually none of the other common sense regs are consistently enforced now, due to lack of resources. I don't see how this one will be different, long term, after a flurry of initial enforcement.
Of course, if I camp in the Eastern High Peaks, I will follow the canister regulation, like I follow the other unenforced regulations. But I'm one person. The focus for the overall problem solving effort needs to be education and enforcement, and the state should provide the resources to accomplish that.
Nessmuk
Active member
Note that it is not at all uncommon practice for a DEC ranger (or assistant) to escort violators of various regulations out to the trailhead and car. Giving a ficticious name to an officer would be another fineable violation.oldfogie said:
bubba
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Nice post, Jef. Enjoyed it as I 'm sure you must have had a great time -- your avator says it all!!
Regarding the DEC's ability to enforce -- our lake at the cottage is patroled by the County Sheriff's office. This is a small inland lake with only about 700 cottages. They (Sheriff) know most of the boats and cottage owners, to some extent. If there is a violation, it is their practice to "warn and educate" rather than issue a summons.
However, on occassion the DEC will arrive with boat and head out on the lake and make life a bit untolerable for most of us. Random checks for emergncy flags, whistles, life preservers, etc. and quickly SUMMONS those in violation. No warnings. Stiff fines.
The lake management and landowners have discussed the issue and trust me-- the DEC has almost unlimited jurisdiction and alarming power.
Regarding the DEC's ability to enforce -- our lake at the cottage is patroled by the County Sheriff's office. This is a small inland lake with only about 700 cottages. They (Sheriff) know most of the boats and cottage owners, to some extent. If there is a violation, it is their practice to "warn and educate" rather than issue a summons.
However, on occassion the DEC will arrive with boat and head out on the lake and make life a bit untolerable for most of us. Random checks for emergncy flags, whistles, life preservers, etc. and quickly SUMMONS those in violation. No warnings. Stiff fines.
The lake management and landowners have discussed the issue and trust me-- the DEC has almost unlimited jurisdiction and alarming power.
I've found bear cannisters to be practical in another way. I have a disk of soft foam velcroed to the top of my cannister. It's a great moveable seat when cooking over a stove, escpecially in colder weather when yer butt gets cold from sitting on anything else. Or I can pull off the disk and use the cannister as a table to set my stove on while using the disk on a log or rock. I've got one of those carbon fiber cannisters that is big, light, and fits perfectly in the sleeping bag compartment of my pack. I carry my bag tightly rolled up inside my sleeping pad hanging on the outside of my pack.
spaddock
New member
oldfogie said:
I always carry my wallet with me while camping, I'd rather have it on me then sitting in my car if it gets broken into. Not having my ID would make it tough to cross the border too.
I'll be carrying a cannister for any overnights.... I'm lazy... kind of ironic since I'll hike for 14 hours a day. But when I'm done I love just chucking the thing in the bush, especially when you get to camp super late. They're a bit of a pain sure, but so is going hungry. Like people have said they make good seats and tables too.
They don't weigh that much, 2 or 3lbs, oh well, that's like 1% of my body weight. I can see the size of it being annoying for ultralighters, I've heard straps work well with them.
Everybody on this board seems to prefer the Bear Vault, yet I believe DEC rents out the Garcia model. The Garcia model is all I can find up here too. Wonder if that is because of price?
-Shayne
rhihn
New member
rup said:
The dividing line of the E and W High Peaks Wilderness Area is the ridge line immediately west of the Indian Pass Trail. The ADK map indicates the line, and the latest edition of the ADK High Peaks Region guidebook shows the area on p. 8.
sun=electric
New member
"Actually, I think that the DEC and ADK should have placed bear-tight storage vaults in the high-use area years ago. The bears wouldn't have trained themselves and the public would have been more aware of the problem because there was a solution right in front of them."
Since designated back country camp areas are often worn out bare spots placing a camouflaged bear box near by is not so bad in my opinion. The super highway wide trails with bridges etc that lead to popular spots are no place to hone wilderness skills anymore. In the old days the lack of designated areas spread out the traffic and bear bags worked better. I hike and also own 100+ acres with bears inside the blue line. I think the reality needs a mixed solution. Canisters if you want and another more universal provision of boxes until bears learn. I remember NYS DEC employees feeding bears when I was a kid. In the same areas (i.e. DEC campgrounds) today you never even see a bear. They have learned there is no more food.
Since designated back country camp areas are often worn out bare spots placing a camouflaged bear box near by is not so bad in my opinion. The super highway wide trails with bridges etc that lead to popular spots are no place to hone wilderness skills anymore. In the old days the lack of designated areas spread out the traffic and bear bags worked better. I hike and also own 100+ acres with bears inside the blue line. I think the reality needs a mixed solution. Canisters if you want and another more universal provision of boxes until bears learn. I remember NYS DEC employees feeding bears when I was a kid. In the same areas (i.e. DEC campgrounds) today you never even see a bear. They have learned there is no more food.
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