Question about Franconia ridge (from L. Haystack to Liberty and Flume)

[captain]

Howdy. So I'm taking my little brother hiking this weekend. It'll be the first time ever doing anything like this....he's never even really been in the mountains...just maybe seen a few from a distance through the glass on the car...he just turned 15, I think he'll be in good shape (better perhaps than I as I broke a toe yesterday...speaking of which...has anyone ever hiked with a broken toe?? Any thoughts on how I'll fare??) Anyway, so I wanted to take him on a hike to really hook him...so we're going to do the classic Franconia Ridge Loop...up falling waters over the ridge and down old bridal path. But we're going to start the hike pretty early...hoping to start hiking by 7:30-8:00. Now I've done this loop in the past (when I was quite out of shape) in about 5:30-6:00 hours. So I was thinking of perhaps extending the loop by perhaps heading south once we get to little haystack to summit liberty and flume...which I have not done...so I guess I'm looking for any thoughts on this...how's the terrain?? A lot of elevation gain and loss?? Are there views along the ridge?? How much time (not including summit/rest time) would this add to the classic loop?? Any thoughts are appreciated. I also entertained the thought of adding to the loop north of lafayette and heading toward garfield...but the liberty/flume addition seemed to make more sense...Muchas Gracias.

 

[Frosty]

Lemme get this straight: You broke your toe yesterday and you want to hike this weekend? And you're bringing someone who never hiked before and to hook him on hiking you're going to bring him up Falling Waters, over to Flume, and then to Lafayette?

Are you serious, or am I not getting the joke?

Frosty

 

[Frosty]

Originally posted by Kevin Rooney What about the Welch/Dickey loop, or something with alot of snap for less effort?

Good idea. Welch-Dickey is an excellent first hike. Nice ledges, a great feeling of accomplishment, and will leave the kid wanting more. IMO.

Frosty

 

[Jim lombard]

Or Mt Osceola which is the easiest 4,000 footer in NH.... but no I have never hiked with a broken toe.

 

[captain]

Wow...

I forgot that most of this board is populated with old-timers Seriously though...that loop was my first serious hike, and I was pretty out of shape...only a year out of college...a pack and a half a day smoker (for 5 years). Ran cross-country in high school, but hadn't done ANY activity that could be considered excercise since...so it had been 6 full years of doing nothing but picking up the horrific habit of heavy smoking, drinking, and ingesting enough chemicals to fertilize a small farm And that hike made me feel great, and since then I have been hiking religiously. And my little bro is 15...and built exactly like me...I know that if I was brought on that loop at 15 I would have wanted more and thought it was a little on the light side...all that being said, I'm just curious what people think of the ridge from little haystack to flume and liberty...it appears to only be 2 miles...obviously if he or I are not feeling 100% or the conditions are not ideal then we'll probably just head over the ridge to laffayette...we may do the welch-dickey loop on sat., but come guys, my brother wants to be challenged...the welch-dickey is less than a 2 hour hike...albeit, with some nice views, but it's not the kind of hike that is going to hook someone, or make my little bro feel accomplished...again, I'll be constantly assessing his condition, but if I (and more critically, my girlfriend) could handle that loop and be ready for more for our first serious hikes, my little bro will be more than up for the challenge...he's a healthy active teenager with lots of energy.

 

[jfb]

Is the question whether to add a side trip to Liberty and Flume once you get up Falling Waters and then turning around and going back to Lincoln and Lafayette? The section between Little Haystack and Flume is about 99% in the woods and it's pretty flat, so it's not what you would call challenging or even very scenic, except for the summits. I guess it would add about 2 hours to the trip.

 

[captain]

thanks!!

Thank you JFB!! That's precisely the info I was looking for!! Now one more question....is there any water to be found between the haystack and flume?? or even flume and liberty for that matter??

 

[Mike P.]

Yes, yes, no, maybe, yes & No

Well, not a broken toe but 11 days after sustaining a chip fracture on my foot, I did do the classic loop (Needed?? Lafayette as final 5K peak in Northeast at the time & did Lincoln for 2nd time that year) Doable, depend on how much your toe hurts, how you deal with pain, your boots & how you will immobilize the toe.

For the chip fracture I wore the stiffest boots I had (which were not that stiff - I now have EMS replacement Traverses which when I sold them for EMS we told people that their feet change to fit the boot not the boot breaking in) Also taped it well (I'm familar with quality ankle & knee wrapping from years of playing Soccer, VB & BB) & this was my first hike using poles. The loop still took 10 hours to do & to this day, the foot still bothers me almost 9 years later. (okay so I took two days off after my hike, then did Osceola's & the day after that some CT AT mileage but I never said I was that smart either.)

Yes, you can hike with broken bones, why would you?

Next your brother is 15, is he active? I know 15 year olds who would eat the entire ridge up in no time at all & some that would be huffing & puffing long before the first view on the OBP? Which is your brother?????????

If you are looking at being macho, IMO, Welch Dickey is kind of lame, I'd look at doing Osceola's instead. Easier, lots of rocks early on from Tripoli Road which will test your toe pretty well for flat terrain (make sure your boots feet well because if they don't & your toe is sliding into the front of your boot, you will hate yourself big time) & the chimney between the two Osceola's while short will provide enough wow & this is hard factor (especially if you don't take the by-pass) to make any 15 year & his older brother feel good. This is better than trying the Ridge in your condition with 15 year old with no experience.

Info on the ridge:
1.7 miles from Little Haystack to either Liberty Springs Trail or Liberty Summit from there another mile or so to Flume. No way a cripple & neophyte have any business descending Flume Slide Trail, probably should not go up it either.

On Franconia Ridge Trail, steepest terrain is just south of Little Haystack & in your condition & your brother's ability (unknown or none you'll find out) your best bet is to go up Liberty Springs, hit Liberty & then ascend Little Haystack over the others & down OBP. Then have the 15 year old jog back to car (you'll be a couple of miles away from your car) & drive up to save your broken toe two more miles of walking downhill.

Is telling parents your underage little brother was in a car accident while driving any worse than perhaps requiring a rescue on Lincoln or Lafayette, I don't know, which one is more likely depends on the weather I guess. Either way, I'd dread the beating once I got home (even at 42 now & my Dad at 66) worse than the foot injury.

Either wait until you are better or pick an easier hike. Leave dumb hikes to dummies like me.

 

[captain]

cripple...

HAHAHAHA...cripple. My toe does not hurt at the moment...I've taped it, and it has little opportunity to move in my shoes...my boots are significantly stiffer than my shoes and fit like a dream...no sliding forward on the downhills...but again, we'll see what happens...the chip fracture in your foot sounds goddamn painful!! After I broke it yesterday I told my little brother that this may impact our plans...and I would let him know thursday night what the deal is (i also told him I only wanted to bring him if the weather was looking good). To your question, my brother is of the first description...he's active, plays a sport for all seasons in school...he certainly won't be huffing and puffing. And yes, I suppose I am looking at being a little macho But I know my brother...I know when we return he's going to want to head right back up with his friends...and I want him to have respect for these mountains...the welch dickey loop is going to make him think he's a real wilderness man and ready to hike anywhere...I want this hike to be challenging for him and I want him to learn as much about hiking safely and responsibly as possible on this trip. The chimney between the osceolas sure does make you feel good!! But I think the ridge will be a LOT more fun for him...and again...I'm not PLANNING on doing the south section of the ridge...I just want to have some options should we get up there and we're both running like well oiled machines...If anyone can answer my question on whether or not there is any water to be found between haystack and liberty, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, (and not to be rude here) I'm not all that interested in what you think will or will not overwhelm the two of us. That will depend on the conditions and a hundred other factors that will only present themselves on the day of the hike.

 

[David Metsky]

I don't believe there is any water along the ridge. There might be some isolated puddles, but that's probably it. There is water at Liberty Springs campsite, which is .4 miles down the Liberty Springs trail just before you reach Mt Liberty.

-dave-

 

[SteveHiker]

Far be it for me to offer advice when it's not wanted (see my trip report on boott spur and you'll see what I mean). But, forgetting about the challenge of your proposed route and the questions raised about you and your brother's fitness to undertake that challenge, I would say to pick a different trail. Not because I don't think you would make it. But because if you want your brother to get an idea of the mountains, don't go there. It's too crowded. Go to a less popular mountain. He'll get a much better experience without so many people around. Since you're from Rhode Island and likely have a long drive, I'd suggest Garfield or even better, the Gale River trail up to the Galehead Hut and then if you're up to it, continue up to the top of South Twin. In my opinion the view from South Twin is superior, and that set of trails offers a wide variety of terrain. Overall its roughly the same distance. (ok maybe a little more mileage and a little less climbing, I can't find my amc guide at the moment). The trailhead is only a little further north, like 10 or 15 minutes right off Rt 3.

Just a thought.

 

[captain]

thanks...

Thanks to Dave for the info on the water. Steve, I put a lot of thought into where to take him....and my biggest con with this area is the crowds...so we're going to hike it on a friday (I'm hoping there will be substantially fewer people on an early Friday morning that a weekend). If the weather is looking poor for friday then we'll try and go on Monday...which crowd wise would be even better...but we'll see what the weather brings.

 

[Mike P.]

Agree no water to speak of in that section, Early Friday whould be better than on weekend. If you can't get there on weekday, Sundays are usually less crowded than Saturdays... (Ignore that last sentence so when I go on Sunday's it's still less crowded )

Soak feet in brook when almost back to car, feels great, broken or otherwise.

Consider the South Twin or Garfield hikes for next hikes, they are good ones too.