Schoeller cloth garments

[Peakbagr]

Can someone provide more information as to whether there are different weights, thicknesses, qualities for Schoeller Cloth garments?
After a lot of looking around and a strong recommendation from a friend, I got my first soft shell jacket made with this material. With the exception of some pilling from a sticky section of 'whacking with thorns, its great so far.

Now that I've used it a bit and read some recommendations from others on the Board, might like to get pants of the same material.
Is all Schoeller cloth equal? And does anyone make full side zip, top to bottom pants?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[DougPaul]

Yes there are several grades of Schoeller cloth. Unfortunately, I don't remember what they are... I understand some of them are pretty rugged.

FWIW, REI carries jackets and pants made of Schoeller Dynamic cloth (light-to-medium weight). Search on "Mistral" at the REI website. http://www.rei.com/search?vcat=REI_SEARCH&query=mistral&x=0&y=0.

A Google search on schoeller cloth brings up a number of useful-looking links: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Schoeller+cloth&btnG=Google+Search

Doug

 

[TCD]

Scholler is a Swiss company (spelled without an "oe"). I have several garments made with two different Scholler fabrics: "Scholler Dynamic," which is a lightweight water repellant breathable material, and "Scholler Dryskin Extreme with 3X Dry," which is a heavier, waterproof breathable material.

The Scholler fabrics are a blend of coated nylon, spandex and cordura, with a special weave. They are the premier, flagship "soft shell" materials, and work really well. Several companies, notably Mammut (Swiss) and Cloudveil, uise these fabrics.

I think Scholler makes other fabrics as well.

(It was fairly difficult to search for Scholler's web site, or perhaps I am not adept. The search was complicated by many hits for outdoor clothing retailers, and also by the Scholler Corporation (United States), which does not make fabrics, but makes fabric treatment chemicals.)

TCD

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I think of Schoeller in much the same way as Malden Mills, the makers of Polarfleece®. Fleece comes in different weights and with different qualities, and Malden Mills sells it to clothing manufacturers, just as Schoeller sells its Drykin products. What you pay for is more related to quality of assembly and detailing, not the fabric itself.

I have a jacket made of Dynamic (lighter - MEC Ferrata) and pants made of Dryskin (heavier - EMS), and my wife has a pair of pants made of Dynamic Dynamic (REI Mistral).

All things being equal, a type of clothing made by two different manufacturers but using the same fabric will perform similarly.

 

[dms]

Try www.schoeller-textiles.com/ I have had good experiences with Cloudveil products made with Schoeller materials.

 

[DougPaul]

Scholler is a Swiss company (spelled without an "oe").

The correct spelling is Schoeller. (oe is how you write "o umlaut" (o with 2 dots above) in German.)

(It was fairly difficult to search for Scholler's web site, or perhaps I am not adept.)

It is much easier to find with the correct spelling...
http://www.schoeller-textiles.com
or the English version:
http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/default.asp?cat1ID=0&emotionstate=1&emotionID=1&langID=2

Doug

 

[Peakbagr]

Thanks. I'd done some searching here and on some of the links posted already.
I'd still like to find a pair of pants with full side zips. Some of the comments on different weights and others were very useful.

 

[skidoc22]

I wear a pair of Mammut pants with Schoeller 3x dry treatment for winter hiking with or without a baselayer depending on outside temp. They are by far the best piece of clothing I have ever owned. They stretch in all directions and are quite tough. They dry like they have a blow dryer built into them. I brush the snow off and in minutes they are perfectly dry. They do not however have side zips. I just bought the Cloudveil Rayzar (sp) jacket as it has a similar material.

 

[Andrew]

I strongly recommend Ibex soft shells. I have an old fashioned tendency towards wool and they have brought the fiber to more modern needs with their products.

They have different weights for varying activities. I have noticied a higher thermal retention and broader temerature range from the wool blend soft shells as opposed to pure synthetic based. This is for a garment without any liners etc.

 

[Doc McPeak]

I have never seen any Dryskin pants with side zips. They don't need them. And in fact would probably work against the drying properties of the fabric.

Just like Dryskin jackets don't have pit zips. The expulsion of moisture works best when the jacket is tightened up at the wrists, pockets (which are quasi-pit zips), and front zipper. Sounds counter-intuitive, but opening up vents just lets in the cold air, lowering the internal temperature which is the driving force in the fabrics breathability.

Creating this contained micro-climate is the key to maximizing the Schoeller Dryskin experience. The second key is one baselayer. MW at the minimum, but EW works better. Keep the skin to outside route as direct as possible, and EW bases (especially capilene, or R1) speed skin-side wicking, keep you warmer and drier, and the breathabilty of Dryskin completes the process.

The 2 exceptions to the rule are high winds. Dryskin is wind resistant to a point (maybe 20-30 mph, depending on temp.) And outside moisture. Wet snow, rain, or heavy laden trees will saturate the fabric. Dryskin will continue to work up to a point, though getting heavier as water is absorbed. With dry approaches and tight snow-dropping summit pushes, I have found whatever wetness I get in the tight areas will have dried by the time I make it back to the trailhead.

 

[DougPaul]

I have never seen any Dryskin pants with side zips. They don't need them. And in fact would probably work against the drying properties of the fabric.

I suspect that Peakbagr's interest in the full side zips is for ease of putting the pants on and off, not for ventilation. (BTW, the REI Mistral pants have a 11 inch side zippers to make them easier to get on and off over one's boots.)

I have read reports to the effect that Schoeller cloth pants work very well when walking through wet grass and brush. They are sufficiently breathable and sufficiently water proof that that your legs stay dry and comfortable.

Doug

 

[Peakbagr]

"I suspect that Peakbagr's interest in the full side zips is for ease of putting the pants on and off, not for ventilation."

Exactly.

 

[michaelb]

Except the theory of wearing softshell pants is to put them and never take them off. When are you contemplating taking them off during a hike?

I agree that full zips don't make sense on softshell pants, but are very useful or necessary on most everything else (particularly for winter use). This is also why the weight of the pants doesn't matter as much, since you should never take them off and carry them in your pack.

The three flavors of schoeller that I am familar with are:

Dynamic: lightweight for summer, spring and fall use;
Dryskin, midweight, for winter, spring and fall use;
WB-400 heavy weight, perfect for winter; good for moderate or low activity in spring, summer and fall.

 

[skiguy]

Except the theory of wearing softshell pants is to put them and never take them off. When are you contemplating taking them off during a hike?

When using hardshell pants I have found that sidezips are useful for ventilation or for totally removing them when you get "REAL" hot. Softshells....both pants and tops breath so much better that the hot/moisture factor is greatly reduced to the point you can dress down a few notches from the fleece/gore thing. The need to totally remove Softshell pants IMO therefore becomes a non entity. The revolution of softshell garments has given rise to "Lighweight" hardshell garments. Because softshell garments are not as windproof and waterproof as hardshells; when full on conditions hit softshells must be coupled with the above mentioned lighweight hardshells. Thence softshell garments can be seen and should be used as part of a layering scheme. Softshells dynamic range of use is much broader than Hardshells again reinforcing the concept of not having to remove softshell pants in transit. My recommendation therefore would be to get non-zip Softshell pant with a lighweight/fullzip Hardshell pant for the best flexibility and performance.

 

[Doc McPeak]

Except the theory of wearing softshell pants is to put them and never take them off. When are you contemplating taking them off during a hike?

My point exactly. Schoeller softshells are one stop shopping. I think Peakbagr is still thinking old school here. What's easier than NOT changing your pants?
The bushwhackers of today typically wear softshell pants from start to finish. Above treeline you throw on your zip shells, but even then I find I need them only on nuclear days. The point of softshells is less is more. But we don't really know what you want to do with them. Knowing you're a whacker I figured you would be using them in the thick stuff?

 

[DougPaul]

Except the theory of wearing softshell pants is to put them and never take them off. When are you contemplating taking them off during a hike?

That is the theory. In practice, one might wish to do so.

My convertible (zip-off leg) pants are probably about as breathable as Schoeller dynamic cloth. I often remove and replace the legs as conditions and my activity level dictates. (This is under dry conditions so the moisture resistance of the fabric is not an issue. Same with or without a longjohn layer underneath.)

All garments have a range. While Schoeller cloth may have a wider range than many fabrics, it is not infinite and one might exceed the range of a Schoeller cloth garment within a single hike.

Doug

 

[Doc McPeak]

DougPaul, which Schoeller products do you hike in?

 

[Peakbagr]

"I think Peakbagr is still thinking old school here"....Sean, you might be right.

I do most of my hiking off trail and over the years have various gear-clothing combinations that work under various conditions. I adjust within their ranges during a trip.
Self-admitted newcomer to Schoeller cloth. So far, all of my breathables usually turn out to be less 'breathable' than advertised, which was the premise of the post. In addition to trying to pick up more info on the material. And all of you have been a real help.

My first Schoeller garment, a new MH hooded Synchro jacket, was first recommended by Rik. It has been excellent so far. My only small issue is its possible susceptiblily to tearing and abrasion. First worn on a damp and chilly whack on a CHH mountain. Over-the-head prickers and thorns for a good part of the upper mountain. Couldn't be avoided. Took a look at the Synchro at home afterward and the prickers had pulled multiple threads. While cosmetics are of little concern, the cumulative affect of many trips could degrade the exterior. Part of the reason for the full side zip question would be the possibility of quickly zipping them off over boots and snowshoes as a 2nd, shred-proof pair of pants might make it too hot.
I too would like to learn more about the various thicknesses of Schoeller you mentioned. Is there a way to tell which thickness a potential garment has and others' experience with each with various temps?
As you point out, the idea is to leave it on all day.

Thanks for engaging with some good ideas.

Alan

 

[DougPaul]

DougPaul, which Schoeller products do you hike in?

Discuss the issues, don't attack the people.

Doug

 

[sierra]

I bought a pair of pants from Wild Things (North Conway) last year, although no sidezips thier quality is excellent. I love the Schoeler material and go as far as using my summer pants over midweight underware on winter hikes.