ski waxing question

[rdl]

I'm planning on skiing up the Whiteface toll road next week using my waxable skis that I've had for about two years now. I consider myself still a novice when it comes to waxing. I assume the conditions on the toll road change quite a bit as one ascends and I'm planning on bringing a variety of waxes with me on the ski. My question is, I've been told I shouldn't put a harder wax over a softer wax -- does this mean as I ascend Whiteface and as the temp drops and snow changes, I should scrape off the softer wax to put the harder(colder) wax on? Or do people not bother with this and just put the harder wax on over the softer wax ? Or will the temp/snow conditions not change that much as I'm ascending and I'm fretting over nothing ? Or should I just drop my waxable skis and just get waxless skis ? Or...

Thanks for the help.

 

[David Metsky]

If you are doing a steady climb and the weather gets colder, your warmer wax will give you more kick at the expense of glide. You may get some snow clumping, but it's not as much of a problem as if it gets warmer outside.

If you don't mind the loss of glide there will be no need to rewax for kick. If you want to regain your glide you will need to scrape off the old warm wax. In practice, I wouldn't bother, just keep climbing. Putting hard wax over soft won't do you much good, as the softer wax will still dominate.

-dave-

 

[AMF]

Assuming the auto road has a steady uphill grade, you may want to consider kicker skins rather than a caboodle of wax.

 

[dave.m]

rdl,

I agree with Dave Metsky. In general in the northeast, the higher you go the better your soft wax will climb. In fact, Dickie Hall suggests intentially using softer wax for extended climbs instead of using skins. It's a great trick and it works great.

There *are* times where putting hard kick wax OVER soft, gooey klister is a great solution, but this is more an early spring trick where you get cold powder in the shade and gloppy wet snow in the sun -- not what you are describing.

For the situation you describe, I would wax for the temp at the base, maybe even a tick softer/warmer for super grip.

If you find things grip too much, the fastest way I've found to strip wax is to use the ski edge (another Dickie Hall tip). Dickie's tip is documented here, along with my thoughts on a simple approach to kick wax:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/Wax.txt

FWIW, I only carry 4 waxes: Special Red, Special Violet, Extra Blue and Green. It's a flexible kit without being overly complex.

Hope it's helpful,

Dave

 

[el-bagr]

Listen to the Daves! I adopted the Dave.M "dirtbag" method of waxing and have had great success so far. Remember, kick waxing works because you allow the snow/ice crystals to penetrate the wax on your bases. I find that at higher elevations, the softer waxes tend to do better (except maybe when the snow is exposed to the elements). I would not want to put hard wax over klister, though -- what a mess.

On the other hand, I don't mind snake skins, so what do I know?

 

[Rick]

I absolutley agree with all of the above (not like I am any expert)
I would like to add that when i have skiied up the toll road, given the temps for the day, I know that I expect green or blue conditions up high, so I usually apply first in a long pocket (extending the kick zone on each end) and then apply the softer wax that conditions call for at the start, but in a smaller kick zone - That way I still have decent grip at the start and, as I get higher, if the softer stuff hasn't yet worn off (I have 1.5 camber skis) I can quickly scrape the small pocket and reapply some blue, green or a mix.

I don't know what others think, but I always thought it worked pretty good for me.

 

[14000feet]

Hi,
What kind of skis are you folks using on the toll road? Heavier tele skis?, lighter (edged) cross country skis?, skinny little things with no edges? All of the above?
Thanks,
Billy

 

[rdl]

Thanks everyone for all the input. I think I tend to make this waxing thing too complicated -- I've accumulated about 10 different colors/temps of wax over the last year or so. Sticking with 4 different waxes is what I should learn to do.

Does wax wear out with age ? Someone gave me some wax that was unused but must be at least 10 years old. Should I just toss this or is it still useful ?

What kind of skis are you folks using on the toll road?

I've heard the grade is about 10% the entire length of the road. I'm planning on using metal edged x-country skiis but I don't think the edges will come into play unless I want to practice my tele turns.

 

[dave.m]

Does wax wear out with age ? Someone gave me some wax that was unused but must be at least 10 years old. Should I just toss this or is it still useful ?

Good question. If you find the answer, I would be interested in hearing it.

The only clue that I can offer is that, in general, the Swix Extra and Swix Special waxes are much more versitile than the older regular waxes. As I understand it, the old waxes were made for wood bases where they perform great. But on plastic bases, the old waxes have a narrow temperature band. The Special and Extra waxes have a wider range of waxes. All of this to say, if your old waxes are simple waxes, the new stuff might be more useful.

 

[BobK]

Wax tips continued...

All the above looks great (including the linked docuemnt).

Except possibly for the demands of ski racers, wax should last a very long time. I have lots 10+ years old and they work fine.

One other tip I didn't see yet - if you are skiing in deep powder (and the ski won't flex when you put all your weight on to kick) you need to extend the length of your kick wax.

I've skied the Whiteface road a few times and think any ski will do. Metal edges may help a bit if it's icy or hardpacked (such as on the turns near the top) but I've seen all kinds there. My past trips were early in the season and I used cheap waxless "rock" skis.

After waxing for years, I've become far more open to the simplicity of waxless skis. They are my preference if; 1)I'm going on a trail that is steadily uphill i.e. limited kick & glide (if they slow me down a bit downhill, that's normally OK), or 2) if it is around 32deg. or higher when waxing becomes more of a challenge.

Sure I can wax, and they glide better, but I'm normally not out to be the fastest, just enjoy being out and getting excercise. For steep continuous climbing, you can't beat skins.

 

[snowshoe]

I like the david mann dirtbag way. does anyone have his wax chart or know how I can get a copy of it. Thanks

 

[dave.m]

I like the david mann dirtbag way. does anyone have his wax chart or know how I can get a copy of it. Thanks

Ha! Remember you said you liked it when you are standing knee deep in snow wrestling with wax that won't work while calling down unspeakable curses against me!!

Seriously, I hope you find it helpful. The Excel version can be found here:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html

Just understand that free advice is worth what you paid for it.