Suggestions for treating frost bite ? I got bit...

[skimom]

Does frost bite scar ?

I've got a nice patch of it on my face (ok, a few patches) and was thinking maybe I should see a dermatologist. Any suggestions on treatment or should I just leave it alone ?

 

[sli74]

Ouch !!!

You might want to see a doctor. If you have blisters leave them alone. Protect them from further damage from the cold and sunlight. You will find that those areas are much more sensitive in the future. Depending on the severity you might want to see an doctor.

sli74

 

[Bob Kittredge]

Before the final assault on Ike's summit cone on Saturday, I stepped into the woods to write my name in the snow. Apparently I didn't "shake and dance" enough afterwards. When I made the summit, I stood in the 30 mph winds waiting for the stragglers to catch up. Soon I reallized that I was getting cold in a place I'd never gotten cold before. The prospect of circumcision by frostbite soon got me motoring again.

 

[sli74]

Here are some good website with some basic suggestions

http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/handouts/frostbit/frostbit.html
http://www.thepoles.com/expguide/frostbite.htm

There are lots of websites with info but seeing a doctor is best.

sli74

 

[DougPaul]

Depends on the severity of the frostbite.

From "Medicine for Moutaineering":
"Minor frostbite ("frostnip") that involves only the tips of the fingers or toes, the tip of the nose, or small areas of the face or ears produces redness and swelling that lasts for a few days but causes no permanent damage."

Often compared to a sunburn. May peel in a few days.

Anything more severe (including blisters forming after rewarming) is worth getting checked out. Possible more severe long term effects.

BTW, "Medicine for Mountaineering" by Wilkerson (available at many outdoor and book stores) is worth having.

Doug

 

[Mad Townie]

Skimom, a FEW PATCHES??? Worse than we thought, eh?

Seriously, from what I saw I don't think you have anything to worry about. "Red" was as bad as it got. Probably more frost nip than frost bite. Just make sure to protect them when you go out again.

 

[skimom]

I don't have blisters, thankfully.

I think it's just frost nip. It's a dark brown color, dry and feels like a sunburn. Got three patches on one side of my face, one is about the size of a quarter. I'm fairly scarey. I really don't want scars from this.

It itches !!!!!! The spots have no feeling if I touch them, they're numb.

harryk ...... I was in full protective gear ! Can you believe it ! Got it right thru my balaclava ! and we never stopped moving for more than 10 seconds !

sli74.... thanks for all the great info... very helpful

MadTownie .... yep, I've got more than just the one, which seems to have grown ... is that possible ?

I'm having a balaclava burning later today. From now on, I'm sticking with my fleece neckie !

 

[bpschroder]

Hey Skimom

I've got a few patches too. Must be because I wore the same brand balaclava as you. It should heal like a sunburn. Actually, I don't think it feels as bad as a sunburn. Aloe and Vitamin E should be all that's needed.

I was thinking of burning that neo-fleece, but I think it'll just melt!

I feel your pain...

 

[DougPaul]

Skimom,

Remember frostbite is an anesthetic injury. So make sure you can alwasy feel your face (and fingers and toes, etc) If need be, touch it to see if you can feel your glove/mitten. (Wiggle fingers and toes to make sure you can feel them.) And of course, if you are in a group, check each other's faces frequently--frostbite only takes 30 sec to form under the right conditions.

Frost nip on the face is particularly easy to treat in the field. Just hold your hand up against the spot (you may not even need to remove your glove/mitten)--your face has a _very_ good blood supply so all you need is to block the cold and wind for 20-30 seconds.

I was out yesterday in a temp of ~8F with winds up to ~30mph wearing a fleece cap (pulled down over my ears) over a baseball cap on the way up and the same plus a light fleece balaclava on the way down. Mild-to-moderate frostbite conditions. Out of the wind--no problem. In the wind my face would feel cold or sting, but as long as I could feel the cold/sting I knew I was ok. When the cold/stinging stopped, I used the touch test to see if my face was warming or had become numb. (Warming in all cases.) When I got hit in the face by a blast of wind, I could look down and use the bill on the baseball cap to block the wind. (I also wear glasses which help to block the wind. Unless it is too cold, they actually make it easier to face directly into the wind than downwind (you get wind eddies behind the lenses if you face away).)

BTW, everything above except for the face check can be used by soloists. I also carry a compass with a mirror which I can use to perform a self face-check.

Also, for treatment, if you apply any of the preparations suggested by others, don't rub. If the frostbite is more severe, rubbing will increase the tissue damage and if you break blisters, you convert a sterile closed injury into an open injury susceptible to infection. I have no comment pro or con concerning the use of aloe and vitamin E--there is nothing on it in any of my medical books. (Disclaimer--I am not an MD, only a long time student of mountaineering.)

Doug

 

[TCD]

Skimom, there's lot's of good info in this thread. My knowledge is mostly first aid, so I'm not much help. But I would get it checked out by a doc., if you're worried about scarring. Don't take any chances. (Seeing your avatar, I really don't want you to have any scarring.)

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Preventing frostbite

I've had lots of experience with cold weather. Well over a hundred days in temperatures colder than -20F. Probably closer to two hundred. It comes from 26 years of year-round commuting by bicycle in temperatures down to -35F. I've had bits of frostbite here and there many times over the years.

FOr the face, what I've found to be the best protection, is to just slob on a bit of vasoline. I always keep a 35mm film canister (are they now antiques in this digital age) filled with vasoline. I find it is better than a balaclava. And it's cheap and easy... And that's how I like things.. cheap and easy.

Oh yeah.. I have a friend, who had more than superficial frostbite. His face shows it. And it will for the rest of his life. So does his foot, which was solidly frozen to his boot. You KNOW when you have it bad.

 

[Bobcat]

Palmer's Coco butter

If medical attention is not in order and there is no broken skin, I would suggest Palmer's Coco Butter. That is the best stuff for preventing scarring. Keep using it until there is no more visible blemish on the skin. You can use it for weeks on end. It won't shine like viatamin e and doesn't need to be constantly re-applied like the vitamin e either.

In addition, you should be supper vigilant about protecting any healing skin from the sun. Any sun exposure to the healing skin can lead to the permanent pigmentation of the area. I would use a high SPF sunscreen daily on the effected area until you are sure it is completely healed.

 

[Michelle]

Scars

I got a bit of "frostburn" or something on my arm back in December.
Very windy, cold day and part of my arm was exposed.
By the time we got to the car, it was burning and red and a little swollen. Over the next week, it turned into a scab (like I'd been burnt) and I kept put 100% aloe on it and vit. E, it eventually peeled off and I now have a scar/discoloration of the patch, it's not huge, but it's not on my face. I have heard good things about the Palmer's (like Bobcat says) and it's worth a try. All I know is, this wasn't a bad "burn" and it left a mark, you don't want scars on your face, if your gut feeling is to see your doc. go for it.

 

[DougPaul]

Skimom,

I see from another thread that you are planning a hike this coming Sat. Make absolutely sure that you only had superficial frostbite (frost nip).

If it was worse than supericial:
One of the absolute worst things that you can do to frostbite is to thaw and refreeze it. The circulation will also be compromised and it will be more susceptible to further frostbite.

Doug

 

[jade]

Out of the many memorable moments hiking with Kevin Rooney and a group of us winter newbies is his how adament he is about preventing frostbite especially on the face.
My question is, should we wear a poly balaclava or a tall fleece neckie that covers the face? My experience is that the skin area of my upper cheeks and the part next to my eyes felt the brunt of cold and wind which would indicate wearing a full balaclava..........but wasn't that what Skimom was wearing?

Thanks....Jade

 

[skimom]

yup, I was wearing a full balaclava, hat and goggles

there was no way for anyone in my group to notice any discoloration since I was covered up

 

[DougPaul]

yup, I was wearing a full balaclava, hat and goggles

there was no way for anyone in my group to notice any discoloration since I was covered up

Many balaclavas are made from a very porus fleece--blocking the wind is generally more important than insulation in protecting the face.

One also has to worry about the seams and junctions. Frostbite often occurs at the junction between a balaclava and goggles.

For best protection, you need a facemask, goggles, and a balaclava. The facemask and balaclava need be wind-blocking, but NOT moisture blocking. If everything is designed and fitted properly, there will be no seams that air can get through. Goggle and glasses icing can be a problem. Make sure you fit everything at home before you need it.

Inability to check each other's face is a problem--either duck out of the wind to check or use the feel tests that I described earlier.

Doug

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Many balaclavas are made from a very porus fleece--blocking the wind is generally more important than insulation in protecting the face.

But there is more than just wind-blocking and insulation. A thin layer of vasoline is effective at something else. It keeps the skin moist allowing greater blood flow. It works very well. My proof is from one time I missed a little patch when spreading it on my face, and that spot got frostbite.. Similar to missing a bit when applying sunscreen and getting a line of sunburn.

Vasoline is used by frequently XC skiers when racing in cold temperatures. I use it instead of a facemask and goggles because they don'T work well with my beard. and eyeglasses.

Try it under your balaclava. You don'T need a thick layer. Just enough so that your skin feels greasy. And for those who care about their looks, it does keep the skin in better condition by preventing it from drying out.

 

[Gris]

I could be mistaken, and I cannot remember the guy's name, but I seem to recall that there was an MD at Littleton Regional who is a bona fide expert on treating all degrees of frostbite. If you are truly worried I would suggest tracking him down and calling him/his office/staff. Good luck SM.

 

[DougPaul]

Actually, the doctors in the northern big city public hospitals also have their share of experience--homeless and drunks lying the the gutter tend to get their share.

Doug