WMNF logging/abandoned/fire road maps

[Stan]

There are old logging/abandoned/fire roads throughout the WMNF which I have heard are presented on a Forest Service map. I have been trying to find such a map for several reasons. No luck so far. Anyone have such a map and can tell me where they acquired it and other details that might be useful in finding one? I feel a bit stonewalled by WMNF staff in getting one of these maps ... being shown instead a map which was used to make a case that large areas of the WMNF were roadless, which I agree they might be depending on your interpretation of "roads", in connection with making a case for wilderness designation ... and being told there was no such map.

Frankly, I don't believe it. How does the Forest Service develop fire fighting plans without one? How does it contract logging without fairly precise delineations of not only the area to be logged but the appropriate access? I have topos of some areas but they are usually based upon fairly old data and I'm not interested, unless as a last resort, in making my own map based upon historic topos etc.

My purpose is to 1) find a few interesting bushwhack routes that incorporate such roads either in the route or as a navigational reference, 2) find new possibilities for bc/xc skiing or snowshoeing, 3) avoid the usual maintained trails ... and other ideas as the possibilities present themselves.

Any suggestions outside a FOIA?

 

[peakbagger]

For what its worth the terrain navigator program I use has the 1987 USGS maps updated with a 1996 USFS revision that shows extra layers delineating various boundaries in the forest and more importantly labeling all the FS fire roads with their respective number designator including roads that may be out of service. Most line up with the roads shown on USGS maps so there isn't a lot of new info, just a better delineation. Speculation on my part is that these numerically designated roads were the only official roads in the forest at the time. Any other 'roads' are probably seasonal temporary access routes for logging. I expect that the FS may not have an up to date paper map, rather their GIS person has a layer or two that they can toggle on or off and print a custom map for their use. These days with GIS, they can overlay almost any file including aerial photos into a map file and view just about any thing they want. Thus they can answer your inquiry that they don't have a map and not lie.

Even with the 1996 revision, I have encountered what appear to be maintained FS roads that are not on the map so the number of roads are not cast in stone.

Last thing I knew the FS was selling old stock maps of the WMNF and no longer was planning to issue new ones. The days of printed maps is rapidly going away.

 

[RoySwkr]

I use satellite photos to locate logging roads, those on Google are newer than most maps

 

[psmart]

As part of the recent Forest Plan Revision the FS released a GIS map layer containing the forest roads. This is the only forest-wide road map I'm aware of. Off course, the map depends entirely on how you define a "road", and was developed largely for the purpose of identifying "roadless" areas.

The districts also have binders of old maps, which are interesting historical documents, but there are no reproductions or electronic versions of these (old/dated) maps.

As for logging and fire fighting operations, these are based on specific field surveys combined with "local knowledge" at each of the districts, in conjunction with the GIS road layer. Based on my years of interaction with the USFS I don't think there's a "secret" map that is being withheld.

 

[JCarter]

If you go to this link on the WMNF website:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/main/whitemountain/landmanagement/gis

you will find collections of "stuff" that you can look at with ArcGIS Explorer. The hiking trails, snowmobile trails, summits, boundaries and tract ownership data seems reasonable in those few areas where I've physically visited. The "road" overlay shapefiles appear to be a work of fiction, or perhaps simply describe roads that at one undefined point in the past existed (again, at least in the limited areas where I've had the opportunity to compare "ground" to "map".) Considering how easy it is to follow hiking trail treadways that were abandoned 40 to 50 years ago, I find it amazing that something that was considered a "road" any time in the last few decades can be imperceptible when you are supposedly standing on it.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Are any "abandoned trails" ever truly abandoned? As in nobody ever visits and nobody ever brushes or moves blowdowns or in no way touches the former trail? Seems to me that the few abandoned trails I've used are still regularly followed, keeping the footbed / herdpath intact.

Tim

 

[David Metsky]

Once the beavers turn a trail into a swamp, it doesn't really recover.

 

[Breeze]

Reaching into my back pack thinking it is way easier to beg forgiveness than to ask for power.