BC Skins

With gear sales in full swing, I'm deciding it's time to invest in some bc ski skins so that I can do tougher terrain. Anybody have favorites? There seem to be different ways of attaching - some have tail attachments, some not, so I'm trying to figure out what would be best.
Thanks.
Maria

Kicker Skins

Unless your planning to skin up some of the steeper slides, I've found kicker skins to be all that's need the vast majority of the time. I have both Asecension Kicker and full skins, hardly ever use the full skins

It depends on the type of skis you have and the kind of skiing you plan on doing. For wider telemark gear and heavier boots, you really need full skins to climb most interesting terrain. Kicker skins work best on narrow BC touring gear, but really don't cut it on fat skis where you want wall-to-wall coverage.

Tail clips vs no tail attachment: I have both and can't really say I've noticed much difference. The biggie is that if you are yo-yoing some terrain and will be taking the skins on and off, the tail clip comes in handy as the skins get wetter and more iced up.

I have BD Ascensions and Glidelite skins, and I'll probably pick up a new pair of G3s for my new skis. You can also get good deals from the following places:

https://www.climbingskinsdirect.com/
http://gearx.com/ski-snowshoe_climbing-skins.html?osCsid=46ab6d2b1446618d2700d7c124914165

I leave the tails of my skins long, wrap them around the tail of the ski, and secure them with Voile straps (http://www.voile-usa.com/Merchant2/...ct_Code=800&Category_Code=VSS&Product_Count=0 REI also carries something similar.)

The strap goes under the skin on the ski bottom and over the skin on the ski top.

This allows me to use the skins on skis of several lengths.


I agree with Dave--if you climb the steeper stuff, you will need full skins. Full skins also work better in bumpy terrain. (I have both kicker and several sets of full skins. I primarily use the kicker skins when using my waxable skis in poor waxing conditions.)

Doug

I find that having tail clips makes it much easier to add or remove skins without taking off your skis.

DougPaul said:

I leave the tails of my skins long, wrap them around the tail of the ski, and secure them with Voile straps (http://www.voile-usa.com/Merchant2/...ct_Code=800&Category_Code=VSS&Product_Count=0 REI also carries something similar.)

The strap goes under the skin on the ski bottom and over the skin on the ski top.

Doug

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I do the same thing. It's a bomber set up.

Another vote for full skins. I have Black Diamond STSs and used them with good results on a boilerplated Christmas Tree at Hillman's Highway last year.

This year, I got a set of Fischer Silent Spiders (long & skinny, with edges), and the toe loops on the skins are too wide. I asked the retailer and they said BD is coming out with a narrower toe loop, but that until then I would have to duck-tape it. As with angling, I'm seeking lighter & lighter gear.

We once again have skiable out-the-door snow in southern MA! Got three good workouts in today, including sledding with the kids and a ski with my daughter snowshoeing! Thought I'd add that.

Good luck, and don't be eyeing the seals at the aquarium!

--M. said:

This year, I got a set of Fischer Silent Spiders (long & skinny, with edges), and the toe loops on the skins are too wide. I asked the retailer and they said BD is coming out with a narrower toe loop, but that until then I would have to duck-tape it.

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Presumably you are aware that BD makes replacement toe loops in a variety of sizes.

You can also make your own from 3/32 inch stainless steel wire/rod and a bit of solder.

If worst comes to worst, you can probably make some loops from 1/8 inch nylon cord.

Doug

Ok, thanks for all the advice. My skies are are Rossignol standard bc ones, basic wide tip, but not super wide, 186 cm. Can I use any skins? Meaning is the tip attachment versatile? And I'll pm you Tom.

Most skin tip loops will fit your skis. It's really only the super wide or super narrow that would have a problem. Do you know the dimensions of your skis? If they don't have much side cut you can get away with straight skins, no trimming. If the skins have a lot of side cut you'll want to get skis wider then the waist and trim them to match the skis.

I have the 07-8 version:
http://www.telemarkski.com/html/rvw_rossignol_bc_65_ar.html

They say the dimensions are: 65/53/60. Not sure what that means though.....

I know they aren't particularly heavy duty, so it would be nice to get skins that would work if I do upgrade in a year or two, though it sounds like one size does fit most everything.

Those are touring skis, pretty narrow with limited sidecut. I'd get 50mm straight skins without a tail clip, trim them a bit short of the tails of your skis, and go climb stuff.

If you get bigger skis you'll most likely need a second set of skins. Anything that works for these narrow skis won't provide enough coverage for beefier skis, especially ones with a lot of side cut. Get skins for these skis and plan on getting a second set for bigger skis.

Maria said:

They say the dimensions are: 65/53/60. Not sure what that means though.....

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width: tip/waist/tail in mm.

In your case, a skin width of ~48mm would be ideal and a tip loop of 50-60mm would work well.

You can use skins that are too narrow for the skis (see below) at the cost of a reduced grip, but you do not want the skin to be wider than the ski. (The exposed skin glue will pick up debris and your edges will be totally covered.)

I know they aren't particularly heavy duty, so it would be nice to get skins that would work if I do upgrade in a year or two, though it sounds like one size does fit most everything.

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Ideally, the skin is a little narrower than the ski, say 5-10mm narrower. (You want to leave a bit of edge exposed in case you need it.) If several pairs of skis have similar waist widths, then a single set of skins can fit all of them. (This applies to straight skins--it may not work for shaped skins (shaped = cut to ski shape as per Dave's post).)

Shaped skins will have a little more grip in certain snow conditions. Straight skins are easier to pack. (Skins are packed by folding them glue-to-glue. Straight skins can be folded with no exposed glue.) I chose to leave mine straight so that I could use them on multiple pairs of skis.

Doug

Don't forget that you have to ski back down what you ski up. I've found myself climbing a lot of stuff on light gear (like what Maria has) on which I wasn't willing to ski down the hill.

Overall, I'd question the utility of skins for those skis. Good technique gets you up some pretty steep stuff with just scales (or even steeper with good wax).

spencer

spencer said:

Don't forget that you have to ski back down what you ski up. I've found myself climbing a lot of stuff on light gear (like what Maria has) on which I wasn't willing to ski down the hill.

Overall, I'd question the utility of skins for those skis. Good technique gets you up some pretty steep stuff with just scales (or even steeper with good wax).

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Not necessarily. I have done loops where the skins were useful for the climb portion. I have also run into snow conditions where the use of the skins saves energy even though I have ascended the same slope on waxes under better snow conditions. And skins can also be used to increase the drag on the descent, if need be.

Skins can also be a useful safety: if you get hurt or snow conditions change on you they may enable you to proceed under conditions where you might have difficulty without.

Doug

DougPaul said:

Presumably you are aware that BD makes replacement toe loops in a variety of sizes.

You can also make your own from 3/32 inch stainless steel wire/rod and a bit of solder.

If worst comes to worst, you can probably make some loops from 1/8 inch nylon cord.

Doug

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Good stuff, Doug, thanks.

Yes, I became aware as I tried and found that I already had the small size (the "Silent Spiders" are 62-52-60, very skinny).

I'll probably take you up on the wire hanger idea, tho; good one.

I also agree that skins make it possible to ascend what may be difficult to descend! Caveat, I guess.

--M.

--M. said:

I'll probably take you up on the wire hanger idea, tho; good one.

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Don't use clothes hanger wire--it is steel and will rust fairly quickly. Stainless steel wire is much better. You might be able to get some at a good hardware store. (It may be sold as welding rod.)

I also agree that skins make it possible to ascend what may be difficult to descend! Caveat, I guess.

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Heck, I've ascended stuff on waxes that I found difficult to descend...

Doug

Thanks everyone -learned a bunch from this. I grew up doing bc without realizing it in VT since we would head out our backyard and make our own tracks in the woods for miles - but time to really know what I'm doing. Got it figured out now and the smallest skins I see sold are 60mm, so I'll go with that and trim. And just plan on new ones when I go for some bigger skies.
Maria

Maria said:

Got it figured out now and the smallest skins I see sold are 60mm, so I'll go with that and trim.

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My narrowest pair of full skins is 42 mm. Don't know if they still make them in that width.

Doug

Gear X has 55 mm straight skins for 39.99

Maria said:

Thanks everyone -learned a bunch from this. I grew up doing bc without realizing it in VT since we would head out our backyard and make our own tracks in the woods for miles - but time to really know what I'm doing. Got it figured out now and the smallest skins I see sold are 60mm, so I'll go with that and trim. And just plan on new ones when I go for some bigger skies.
Maria

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Check the Gear X website (It's in Dave Metsky's first post in this thread) I did and found they were selling BD 55 mm clipfix skins (200 cm long) for $40. It's a great deal if you like straight skins which I do (for the same reasons DougPaul mentioned).