Help/advice - "hiker car" needed??

For just plain fun. A Wrangler. I have so much fun with my Jeep now not having to truck the kids around. Much smaller than the F-150 and Dodge 1500 crew cab. I bought this used with low mileage for a good price to replace the Dodge after the kids no longer needed me to truck them around. I use to get 8 mpg running around to fire calls in town. And it never got more than 17 mpg on the highway. This get me much better gas mileage, great handling in mud, snow, etc. I use to drive one fairly often in the Army also. My first exposure. When you absolutely, positively must get there, or get back - Jeep.

It doesn't get any better than racing around with the top down on a gorgeous day, wind rustling through your hair, or scalp. Whatever the case may be.




Keith

Kevin Rooney said:

No doubt the 2wd F-150 is a good truck in the road construction business, but ... whichway is looking for an AWD vehicle for a small person. How is an un-loaded 2wd F-150 in snow?

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Surprisingly capable. During the 2008 ice storm, it got me into "ground zero" in the town of Ashby, MA (just south of Windblown) and back without much worry. You have to drive it carefully in such conditions, but it handled snow and ice (with all-season tires) much better than my low-clearance FWD PT Cruiser (fitted with Blizzaks on all 4 corners).

I only posted that it was 2wd for gas mileage comparisons. Whichway would probably want to look for a 4wd version which would give her the benefit of a TRUE 4wd system with low-range gear box. See also SAREMT40's Jeep, which would be my other recommendation.

As for fitting a "small" person, I think "Lariat" trim-level trucks came with power seats (fore-aft/up-down) and adjustable pedals after 2005. I know a woman who is all of 5'0" that drives an Expedition (the SUV built on the F-150 platform), and her husband is 6'3". Fully adjustable seating was a HUGE issue for them.

I'll grant that a truck may not be the "right" vehicle in this case, but the used market for them is quite large and the notion of owning one as reliable transport shouldn't be dismissed without first looking at a few.

I'm still happy with my '02 Subaru Outback. (Bought new.) I get ~28mph on the highway.

Doug

I have a 2000 Subaru Impreza. It has not held up as well as I would have hoped, and I am probably going to be in the market for a new vehicle soon as well. I'd like something with higher ground clearance than the Impreza. Also, the Subaru I had before this one had push-button 4 WD. Much better than AWD all the time, because you get better mileage during the times when you don't need the 4WD. Too bad they don't make that any more. Does anyone know of a similar vehicle that still has push-button 4WD?

[Between Subarus I had a Suzuki Jimny that was like a mini SUV, was very economical, and got excellent mileage. (I was living in SE Asia at the time. As far as I know these were never available in the U.S.) That also had push-button 4WD.]

Subaru is the standard but I like Volvo

Yes. A gazilion people like their Outbacks. I like my 2WD V70. Not even a 4WD XC70. Never a problem with traction in snow and ice though I'll admit clearance isn't optimal. Highway and Rt 302 runs to NH are over 30 MPG. Plenty of room for gear and sleeping. At 80K it has cost me $.042 per mile excluding fuel but including tires (and our S60 is at $.078 but that one's on its 2nd set of brakes and tires and we buy really good ones).

My Hyundai Tucson has push button 4WD. It's not a bad vehicle, but it's a little more of a "city SUV."

I would check consumer reports for their surveys on maintenance problems of used cars. It is worth an inspection of a car before you buy ... but use a competent mechanic, one that you trust.

Reliable cars save on maintenance in the long run and aren't as likely to leave you stranded.

My own preference is a full sized SUV on a truck frame with 4WD, high clearance and storage space ... all of which I need for where we go and how much gear we take. I'm very happy with my '03 Xterra though I could use a little more storage. It doesn't get great mileage but I'd rather have the power to cruise at high speeds and work my way over rough roads and washouts. Other than routine oil changes, I've never had to add oil despite hot hard driving.

... and for anyone fond of the Caribou Valley Road at its worse, check this out ... Lolo Motorway ... took me 5 hours to go 25 miles ...

I'm gonna have to with SAR-EMT 40 and throw a plug for Jeeps. I have a 92 Wrangler with 120,000 still running strong. I've taken many a 5-6 hr drive to the ADKS in it and it's never let me down....knock on wood! Can't be beat in snow....and yes, I've slept in it quite a few times. Only problem is rust which Jeeps are known for.
If I were you, I'd look for a Cherokee. No longer made, but an excellent SUV with plenty of room to put seats down and sleep in. The last year for them was 2001 and you can find them with decent mileage for a good deal.

peakbagger said:

Keep in mind, AWD adds a lot of weight to a small car and you will be paying for it at the pumps every time you fill it up. Realisitically for 90% of drivers in areas with snowplows and mostly paved roads (excludes half of VT), a good front wheel drive with real live snow tires (or studs for real extreme conditions) will go just about anywhere. Unfortunately most folks find that what it really does is allow the driver to drive faster than the safe driving speed in marginal conditions as AWD doesnt do anything when it comes to slow down.

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Amen!

Based on your criteria, you're looking for a Subaru, Honda CR-V, or Toyota RAV-4. However, unless you put very few miles on your car, the cost savings of having a car that gets great mileage (35-40 m.p.g.) outweighs the relatively minor perks of all-wheel drive and high ground clearance.

Please excuse my immodesty, but I dare say--and confidently so--that I've driven more in bad weather than virtually anyone except for commercial truck drivers and I've apparently driven the Caribou Valley Road, in a Subaru Outback, higher than at least 90% of the people on this forum. I've driven a Civic & a Camry up ski area maintenance roads, which are similar to CVR. My car of choice is a Honda Civic (a Toyota Corolla would be just as good). Why? Honda is one of the most reliable brands, so I can count on it lasting well beyond 200,000 miles (I shoot for 250K+) and the Civic gets 35-40 m.p.g., which is approximately 30% better than what an Outback gets. These two things mean much less money spent at the pump and in the shop. Money saved is a bigger perk than high ground clearance and all-wheel drive.

Try looking on Craiglist and definitely have a mechanic that you trust look it over.

P.s. When you want to head up the CVR, carpool with SAR-EMT40. ;-)

When I did my first post and searched cars.com for pricing I was in for sticker shock. Much as all have contributed some great vehicles to the thread, 7K for an AWD vehicle is not going to get much and what there is will be high mileage and well past any warantee. If the search is for a front wheel drive, the options open up quite a bit and the vehicles can be newer with less mileage. I generally do my own work, but if someone doesnt, the repairs do add up.
The odds are that the AWD vehicle selected will be in the 100 to 150 K range and is going to need a timing belt, tensioner (water pump if its a subaru), a clutch if its a standard and possibly other deferred major items very soon. If you can get a front wheel drive with about 70 to 80 K, most of these items can be delayed for a few years(although its important to pick a "zero interference engine" if you want to delay a timing belt).

I have an 2010 Element now, but previously had a Rav4 and long ago, a subaru wagon. I like them all, and in AWD + snow tires, think they are basically functionally equivalent. You live in Vt, so getting AWD if you want makes sense IMO.

If sleeping in the back is really a criteria, I think that sets the Element apart. I have yet to sleep in mine (and have read conflicting reports here about sleeping in parking lots in anticipation of early morning hikes), but would like/plan too. I don't really know how viable sleeping in the Rav 4 or Outback would be, I don't think the rear seats come out. In the Element, you can either put the front and rear seats flat, making a large and bumpy bed, or put the front seats forward and the rear seats up on the wall or remove them, making a shortish but flat bed in the back.

the element does not get very good mileage (20-24), is full of blind spots, and has the funky rear doors, which can make a tight parking lot with rear passengers awkward.

If you're from VT, I thought you had to get an outback???

Outbacks make very good sleeping platforms, except for a few things.

I am 5'4 and can just about fit myself without going diagonal on my 3rd Gen 05 outback. The bed slopes a bit down when the car is level which is just a function of the rear 60/40 seats not folding down completely perfectly flat. There is a small gap between the headrest and the front seat, depending on how far up the front seat is pushed up such that if you need that front seat to be way up due to your height, might try to see how comfy it is to sleep with your head in the back and your feet towards the front, maybe a taller pillow.

Cons on the outback when literally car camping:

1)Frameless doors, if the windows are rolled slightly down, they make noise when the doors are closed due to the vibration.

2) rear liftback window doesn't open, less ventilation


Other than that, it makes a great sleeping platform, with long crossbars, you can even throw a tarp over the subaru if it is raining and remain dry and have somewhat some ventilation...It has hooks on the roof handles to hang things like keys and headlamps so you know where they are at an instant..

TEO said:

Amen!
the cost savings of having a car that gets great mileage (35-40 m.p.g.) outweighs the relatively minor perks of all-wheel drive and high ground clearance.

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I'm all for great gas mileage; but I'll bet you couldn't get up my driveway in your Civic after an ice storm. Or in a snowstorm before the plow has come. Or handle many of our dirt roads in mud season. Even the paved roads can develop frost heaves and pot holes that could swallow livestock. For those of us living in northern New England, having 4WD or AWD and high ground clearance are often necessities for getting around, not "minor perks."

Jay H said:

The bed slopes a bit down when the car is level which is just a function of the rear 60/40 seats not folding down completely perfectly flat.

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Jay, you need to lift up the bottom of the rear seat (so that it is vertical) before folding down the seat-back. Then, it will be completely flat and will not have the height discrepancy that some cars, such as Honda Civics, have between the folded down seat-back and the floor of the trunk.

There should be a fabric loop in the middle of the rear seat that you pull to release the seat bottom. If you don't see it, reach around in the seat-belt crevice.

As for venting at night: buy some screen material, cut to shape, and duct tape it over the windows of the doors that you will not be exiting or entering through (i.e. front passenger and one of the two rear passenger doors). Lower those windows. It takes a couple of minutes to set up each night, but is well worth it for well-ventilated, bug-free nights.

For those of us living in northern New England, having 4WD or AWD and high ground clearance are often necessities for getting around, not "minor perks."

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You must be Gen-X, when I was a kid in VT nobody had 4wd and if anything roads were worse

But ordinary cars had high clearance, people had chains and knew how to put them on, and people didn't see the need to travel as much

TEO said:

As for venting at night: buy some screen material, cut to shape, and duct tape it over the windows of the doors that you will not be exiting or entering through (i.e. front passenger and one of the two rear passenger doors). Lower those windows. It takes a couple of minutes to set up each night, but is well worth it for well-ventilated, bug-free nights.

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Don't use the duct tape. Instead, make sure you get nylon (not metal) screen, and a handful of magnets. Use the magnets to stick the screen onto the car. The soft nylon will protect the finish of the car while the magnets can be arranged to keep the screen tight and bug-resistant.

Elizabeth said:

I'm all for great gas mileage; but I'll bet you couldn't get up my driveway in your Civic after an ice storm. Or in a snowstorm before the plow has come. Or handle many of our dirt roads in mud season. Even the paved roads can develop frost heaves and pot holes that could swallow livestock. For those of us living in northern New England, having 4WD or AWD and high ground clearance are often necessities for getting around, not "minor perks."

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I grew up in Vermont, went to college there, and lived in Northern Vermont for ten years after college. I've lived miles up on steep dirt roads, with long driveways. I ski, a lot. During big storms, I'm usually on the road. So, I'm well aware of the difficulties that you mention.

Some people do have steep driveways that make having a 4WD vehicle a great advantage. But, there are few storms that a 2WD vehicle with snows cannot handle. Put on studded Hakkapeliittas, and that number drops to even fewer.

RoySwkr said:

You must be Gen-X, when I was a kid in VT nobody had 4wd and if anything roads were worse

But ordinary cars had high clearance, people had chains and knew how to put them on, and people didn't see the need to travel as much

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I used to get around on back roads without the AWD; but the high ground clearance is key. My job takes me places pretty far off the beaten track, so it is not just a matter of recreational choice.

Most cars these days are built very low, and it is a real pain trying to hunt down specs on ground clearance for various vehicles. Anybody know of a website that lists specs for comparing various cars, without having to wade through a whole lot of advertizing?

My Wrangler RBRs (Rolling Bike Racks) have gotten me into and out of everything since 1994 (2 jeeps worth).

TEO said:

Jay, you need to lift up the bottom of the rear seat (so that it is vertical) before folding down the seat-back. Then, it will be completely flat and will not have the height discrepancy that some cars, such as Honda Civics, have between the folded down seat-back and the floor of the trunk.

There should be a fabric loop in the middle of the rear seat that you pull to release the seat bottom. If you don't see it, reach around in the seat-belt crevice.

As for venting at night: buy some screen material, cut to shape, and duct tape it over the windows of the doors that you will not be exiting or entering through (i.e. front passenger and one of the two rear passenger doors). Lower those windows. It takes a couple of minutes to set up each night, but is well worth it for well-ventilated, bug-free nights.

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Hmm, you sure that is the case with 3rd generation outbacks? (05-09)? The slope is very very minor and I like my head a little elevated anyway but I'll check that out the next time...

BTW, real tire chains don't fit on the outback due to the large wheels, small wheelwell. Cable-chains do fit though...

Jay