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Thread: Mt Tecumseh Elevation Article

  1. #46
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    If they take peaks off the list, will less people climb them? if yes, I'd like to see several others removed from any list....
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  2. #47
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jniehof View Post
    I work in the other direction, but frankly, a lot of the conversation is surprisingly similar.
    And anyone who was launching a probe to Neptune would have a different perspective, since Voyager II was launched in 1977, when there were 46 on the list.
    | 63.8% W48: 19/48
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  3. #48
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomK View Post
    Got out my 1976 copy of the WMG. It lists 46 (and the list is in the front of the book, not the back). Galehead and Bondcliff are omitted, and Wildcat "E" is listed rather than Wildcat "D".

    The 1979 copy lists 47, adding Galehead, and still lists Wildcat "E". The penultimate paragraph of the "lists" section notes "Galehead, with a new measurement of 4024 ft. becomes a 4000 footer."

    I did a trip in 1978 with an overnight at the Guyot shelter then did Bond and West Bond, did *not* go out to Bondcliff (why would I, it wasn't on the list , stupid younger me) but then visited Galehead because it *was* on the list.

    My next copy is the 1987, and that lists 48, including Galehead, Bondcliff, and Wildcat "E".

    Didn't get another copy until 2007, and that has Wildcat "D" rather than "E" - when did they make that change?
    The description of the Owl's Head path in that edition notes that "The AMC's Four Thousand Footer Committee will continue to recognize the knob where the well-beaten path currently ends as the official summit of Owl's Head."

    Have they changed that? Didn't see anything in either the 2012 or 2017 copies to indicate they had. Any thing else I missed?

    Is it the case that "most" folks that have "done the 4Ks" have done 48, including either Wildcat "E" or "D"? If that is the case, I think it is perfectly reasonable to say "we aren't changing the list anymore". It is also perfectly reasonable to make a change whenever new information becomes available. It isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things - we're just climbing hills here, not sending a probe to Neptune...

    TomK
    I like to take credit on finding out Owl's Head summit was off. In Aug of 2004 I recorded that hike on my GPS. Stopped at the summit sign posted and cairn. Shown in the photo. When I got home I checked and discovered didn't make the X. I had it planned and routed to that X but stopped at the sign. If I had checked the pre planned route while at the sign in my gps I would of found the X. Figured the sign was right. Ha. I reported it to a 48K committee member. I have many 48K hikes recorded and stored here from 1998. Did that once more on Cabot. Fogged in and fooled. Had to go back. ha. Didn't bother with Owl's Head. Not worth it. Not that anal.
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  4. #49
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomK View Post
    ...
    My next copy is the 1987, and that lists 48, including Galehead, Bondcliff, and Wildcat "E".

    Didn't get another copy until 2007, and that has Wildcat "D" rather than "E" - when did they make that change?
    ...
    I'd go out on a ledge and suggest that it was sometime between 1987 and 2007.

    My 1992 edition, the 25th, continues with "E" (4041'). My 1998 edition, the 26th, changes it to "D" (4050') and explains that the Four Thousand Footer Committee changed the list in 1998. Both editions list Wildcat at 4422'. Both are on the Wildcat Ridge Trail and if you hike it from Rt. 16 to Carter Notch, affectionately known as "the kittens", you not only cross them but A, B and C as well.

  5. #50
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    I'd go out on a ledge and suggest that it was sometime between 1987 and 2007.

    My 1992 edition, the 25th, continues with "E" (4041'). My 1998 edition, the 26th, changes it to "D" (4050') and explains that the Four Thousand Footer Committee changed the list in 1998. Both editions list Wildcat at 4422'. Both are on the Wildcat Ridge Trail and if you hike it from Rt. 16 to Carter Notch, affectionately known as "the kittens", you not only cross them but A, B and C as well.
    There must be someone who tagged Wildcat (A) from Carter Notch, and E from Pinkham Notch, and never visited B, C, or D.

    Of course, all this means is that lists change, and if you finished the list at the time, then you finished that list. The lists have versions. So, when people say they are working on the 48, what they mean is their are working on the current version. I'm sure most of you have read this, but just in case: http://www.amc4000footer.org/history.html

    Alpha: 1931 (36 peaks, 300' prominence)
    Beta: 1934 (88 peaks, 51 named
    v1.0: 1955 (46 peaks, 200' prominence)
    v2.0: 1975 (47 peak, adding Galehead)
    v3.0: 1980 (48 peak, adding Bondcliff)
    v4.0: 1998 (48 peaks, but Wildcat D replaces Wildcat E)

    And if you read this, there will likely be another new version in 2022: https://www.nhpr.org/post/new-measur...nging#stream/0

    The version you did will still exist, it just won't be the current version, which can always change. If it did, then then the list becomes "All the NH Peaks of 4k' with 200' of prominence, plus the peaks that we thought met that criteria prior to 2019's LIDAR survey", and that doesn't really roll of the tongue.
    Last edited by TJsName; 11-26-2019 at 08:05 AM. Reason: I replaced D with C by mistake. :)
    | 63.8% W48: 19/48
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  6. #51
    Senior Member Barkingcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post

    Beta: 1934 (88 peaks, 51 named
    And who wouldn't want a NH 88 patch?

  7. #52
    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    How exactly did that work? The 88 would be pretty cool but the un-named 37 is even more intriguing.
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

  8. #53
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    Given that they were most likely using the 1921 series USGS maps I expect determining prominences would be quite the challenge.

  9. #54
    Senior Member TEO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Metsky View Post
    But the history of the NH 4000'ers is precision, not tradition. Peaks have been removed and added in the past because of new surveys; there's no reason to change the practice now.
    I concur. And while they're at it, shouldn't they de-list South Hancock? It my understanding that it has less than 200' prominence.

  10. #55
    Moderator David Metsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEO View Post
    I concur. And while they're at it, shouldn't they de-list South Hancock? It my understanding that it has less than 200' prominence.
    There are a few that should be delisted; Lincoln probably doesn't have 200' prominence either.
    You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose. -- Dr. Seuss

  11. #56
    Senior Member Rob S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Metsky View Post
    The number was 46 until 1975, and 47 until 1980.
    OK, I should have said "tradition as known in my hiking lifetime".

  12. #57
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkingcat View Post
    And who wouldn't want a NH 88 patch?
    Something tells me they hadnt fined tuned prominence requirements at this point.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  13. #58
    Senior Member Salty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEO View Post
    I concur. And while they're at it, shouldn't they de-list South Hancock? It my understanding that it has less than 200' prominence.
    I think I posted most of this last summer but here's what I came up with for some peaks that I looked at, by brute force method (checking data points manually). As can be seen from the note in Guyot, it can be off, but I expect all of these numbers to be pretty close for the col depths (summits should be spot on, assuming, as mentioned in the article, the LiDAR point hit the true highpoint).

    Tecumseh: 3994.6'

    Bondcliff: 4262.8'
    Bondcliff-Bond col: 4042.7'
    Prominence: 220.1'

    West Bond: 4517.5
    West Bond-Bond col: 4301.8
    Prominence: 215.7'
    Another guy came up with 221.8' through automated data analysis

    south Guyot: 4564.1'
    north Guyot: 4581.4'
    Guyot-Bond col: 4344.4'
    Guyot-S. Twin col: 4361.9'
    Prominence: 219.5'

    Sandwich: 3960.6'

    Lincoln: 5078.5'
    Lincoln-Lafayette col: 4899.5'
    Prominence: 179'

    south S. Hancock: 4257.4'
    north S. Hancock: 4246.6'
    S. Hancock-N. Hancock col 4078.3'
    Prominence: 179.1'

    The northern of the two S. Kinsman bumps is higher by 29 cm.

    Owl's Head. South bump 4025.38', north bump 4029.22' at 71.6049301W 44.1444949N. There is a 4028.79' bump just 45' south of that.

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