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Thread: Another Local Area Abused

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    Another Local Area Abused


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    That looks like it is the cumulative affect of people disrespecting property rights for several years. Sad, but probably necessary to block access to the public, because, in general, people suck.

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    Senior Member Hillwalker's Avatar
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    I wonder if the owners had the land in "Current Use". If so it looks like posting it will decrease their current assessment tax relief by 20%. Or in other words their property taxes could go up by 20%.

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    The rebate for allowing recreational use is trivial. I think on my 83 acres, it was less than $10.

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    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    A couple of very telling quotes in this story...

    Their mindset is not ours, preserving the natural beauty for the next generation. They are here and gone in days, not decades,” lamented Holmes.

    The owners also said... many Trails Apps available describe hikes on private lands that should require permission.
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
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    Senior Member BISCUT's Avatar
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    Sad that there are so many unlike us out there that would leave a mess on any property. Private property just that much worse. I can sure understand the parking as well. AT in NY runs below the hill I built my house on. Since the China Virus people park under the Taconic Parkway bridge is the most bizarre ways. Instead of using the room you have to park safely they will put half of their vehicle into the road. Large SUV and small Prius type vehicles the same.

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    Senior Member TCD's Avatar
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    Agree. Very sad. Grew up in Westchester County, not too far from you. Learned to play in the woods at Pound Ridge.

    Part of the problem is that there are always bad actors in the mix, and there is ZERO real effort to reach and educate the bad actors.

    Agencies and Groups put up signs, and blather bullshit on social media. But the reality is that the ONLY way to reach many of the users is with a personal presence; a Front Country Steward who actually speaks with people. And that costs money, which the agencies and the groups are unwilling to spend.

    Because they do not really give a crap; they only want to fund raise by looking like they give a crap.

    Hold their feet to the fire.

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    Senior Member Barkingcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    The owners also said... many Trails Apps available describe hikes on private lands that should require permission.
    The same holds true for unauthorized camping along public-access hiking trails that traverse private property, often showcased (promoted?) on social media. I wonder when critical mass is reached and the landowners tire of picking up after these events, and decide to close the trails.

    One nice, quiet trail in particular near us has been around since the 1940s. I'd hate to lose that.

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    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkingcat View Post
    The same holds true for unauthorized camping along public-access hiking trails that traverse private property, often showcased (promoted?) on social media. I wonder when critical mass is reached and the landowners tire of picking up after these events, and decide to close the trails.

    One nice, quiet trail in particular near us has been around since the 1940s. I'd hate to lose that.
    What ever happened to The Trail Bandit: The guy who created maps of old trails located on private property? He was active in the Ossipees and also U.S Virgin Islands.

    His deal was that private landowners put land into conservation easements for tax benefits agreeing to allowing public access . Soon after they closed off access to keep it private (having their cake and eating it too). He claimed this was illegal and produced maps to encourage use.
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    Senior Member BISCUT's Avatar
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    The nature of the human animal. Just more reasons why dogs are the best

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    Senior Member BISCUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCD View Post
    Agree. Very sad. Grew up in Westchester County, not too far from you. Learned to play in the woods at Pound Ridge.

    Part of the problem is that there are always bad actors in the mix, and there is ZERO real effort to reach and educate the bad actors.

    Agencies and Groups put up signs, and blather bullshit on social media. But the reality is that the ONLY way to reach many of the users is with a personal presence; a Front Country Steward who actually speaks with people. And that costs money, which the agencies and the groups are unwilling to spend.

    Because they do not really give a crap; they only want to fund raise by looking like they give a crap.

    Hold their feet to the fire.
    Very close!! Pound Ridge remains a beautiful quite town.

    Signs: While signage is important to a degree; take it from NY the bazillion road signs and parking signs are often ignored. What would work well is my former Catholic School teacher Sister Mary Noel! That woman hit hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    What ever happened to The Trail Bandit: The guy who created maps of old trails located on private property? He was active in the Ossipees and also U.S Virgin Islands.

    His deal was that private landowners put land into conservation easements for tax benefits agreeing to allowing public access . Soon after they closed off access to keep it private (having their cake and eating it too). He claimed this was illegal and produced maps to encourage use.
    You do realize that you are putting out "bait" to rekindle one of the more long running contentious issues on VFTT?.

    Here is the link to the still downloadable map http://www.franklinsites.com/hikepho...itossipees.php. He had to agree to stop publishing the map but there were no restrictions on making it available to download. LRCT subsequently bought at least one large additional easement in the area of contention but when I inquired about access after it was announced they had closed on it, I was informed that they were not ready for the public to access it yet. A couple of years later I think this is still the case but admit its outside of my normal hiking range. Before you vilify TB you may want to look at the http://www.franklinsites.com/hikephotos/Ossipee/ a fairly well researched link including the basis for his objections of paying money to landowners to retain public access and allowing the landowners to rescind the access. It wasnt just tax benefits, it was an outright check for $1.4 million dollars to politically well connected landowners to allow public access.

    Sadly the state of NH is supposed to manage this and many other easements assigned to them, but their history on Sunapee, Nash Stream, the Ossipee's and at least one other summit I was made aware of by a knowledgeable party has given them the reputation in the conservation community that they are very selective in their enforcement of easement restrictions and willing to outright violate them if its politically expedient.

    I am not advocating public access to private land where no rights exist but I do feel that if the right exists that the public should respectfully use it. Many folks do not realize that NH recreational liability law is as long as the property is not posted, the owner can not be sued for someone getting injured on the property unless its deliberate hazard built or maintained by the landowner. If the owner elects to post the land, that protection does not apply and the landowner will then need to either buy liability insurance to cover the property or take the risk that they can be sued. It is also a cost and ongoing maintenance to the landowner to notice the land

    635:4 Prescribed Manner of Posting. – A person may post his land to prohibit criminal trespass and physical activities by posting signs of durable material with any words describing the physical activity prohibited, such as "No Hunting or Trespassing", printed with block letters no less than 2 inches in height, and with the name and address of the owner or lessee of such land. Such signs shall be posted not more than 100 yards apart on all sides and shall also be posted at gates, bars and commonly used entrances. This section shall not prevent any owner from adding to the language required by this section.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 10-16-2020 at 03:08 PM.

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    Senior Member miehoff's Avatar
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    Wow. There is a backpacking trip on that map.
    Miehoff

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    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    You do realize that you are putting out "bait" to rekindle one of the more long running contentious issues on VFTT?. [/I]
    No bait intended. I don't recall any great brouhaha here over him. But, hey, it is social media so you're probably correct.

    I think one of his crimes was that he also documented and photographed non-sustainable forest management and logging practices by some owners on their "conserved" lands. Which really annoyed them.
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    This has happened quite a bit in the climbing community as well, given that there are many small crags located on private land. A number of places were “closed” on public forums while various groups sought to work out a solution with the landowner. I think Band M crag in Albany is one such area. In any event, the most that you can do is have the major websites shut down any posting of climbing areas that are not known to be open to the public. It’s another cat and mouse exercise. But there are always bloggers and other social media users who will ignore the attempts to lessen advertising of fragile access areas or who are otherwise oblivious. Like corralling cats. In my opinion, very few people are deliberate and thoughtful in making decisions in life and simply don’t care to take the time to consider the consequences of their actions to others.
    Last edited by NHClimber; 10-17-2020 at 08:28 AM.

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