CT A.T. Aggressive Bear report

just got back in. I met a young couple at 10 Mile River lean-to Saturday afternoon who had a run-in
with an aggressive bear in Salisbury south of Bear Mountain.
They heard the bear, tried to scare it off, thought they had and it returned to tear her pack out of
their little vestibule. Food was hung and not disturbed.
These people looked like they knew what they were doing, so I doubt she had a pouch of gorp in there, but...
They packed out that night, slept in the car and returned and found her pack (in piece) the next day.
They didn't seem compelled to file a report. I doubt they were lying, they just may have "gotten over it"
by the time I spoke with them.
It struck me that the food was not disturbed (it was hung), and that the bear took her pack without distroying it.
There may be a Spring Bear/Woman in the woods thing going on, but be careful out there.

Just speculating, but the bear may have learned from past experiences with campers that tent=food. Another possibility perhaps is there were odors in the pack where food had been.

Dick

Chip said:

just got back in. I met a young couple at 10 Mile River lean-to Saturday afternoon who had a run-in
with an aggressive bear in Salisbury south of Bear Mountain.
They heard the bear, tried to scare it off, thought they had and it returned to tear her pack out of
their little vestibule. Food was hung and not disturbed.
These people looked like they knew what they were doing, so I doubt she had a pouch of gorp in there, but...
They packed out that night, slept in the car and returned and found her pack (in piece) the next day.
They didn't seem compelled to file a report. I doubt they were lying, they just may have "gotten over it"
by the time I spoke with them.
It struck me that the food was not disturbed (it was hung), and that the bear took her pack without distroying it.
There may be a Spring Bear/Woman in the woods thing going on, but be careful out there.

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Among other things, black bears have been known to (1) bluff charge hikers to get packs dropped on the trail, and (2) adroitly undo the ropes on which food is hanging at campsites.

From the brief description above, this sounds like a bear that is habituated to humans, probably from being rewarded with food (handouts, garbage cans, sloppy campers, etc.) Without any more facts, the targeting of the pack suggests food odor contamination on that item. I personally don't hold much stock with the common "woman in the woods" theory.

Habituation is the first step toward becoming a "problem" bear. A "problem" bear is usually a "problem" for only a while. Then it often ceases to be a bear, which then is a "problem" for the bear.

If this bear was actually "aggressive," in the sense that it was a threat to their safety, it would probably have tried to enter the tent and not merely taken the pack. I use "probably" because the only sure thing about bears is that there's no sure thing.

On further reading it does appear as though the "women and bears" thing is not a factor, identified primarily as coincidence re. attacks.
So perhaps she was cooking M&M's all day in the pack and the bear thought that smelled better than the suspended food.
Encounters will continue to increase as the bear population has increased geometrically around here over the past few years.
Increased caution and attention to food, pack and clothes details is required.

sardog1 said:

Among other things, black bears have been known to (1) bluff charge hikers to get packs dropped on the trail, and (2) adroitly undo the ropes on which food is hanging at campsites.

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I have heard of "mugger bears" in Yosemite, haven't heard of any in the northeast.

Obviously a bear can cut the ropes just by clawing them against tree bark (and can learn to look for the ropes...) Again, I am aware that this is well known among certain populations of western bears.

Do you (or anyone) know if any populations of northeastern bears know these techniques? (IIRC, the bears are getting pretty skillful in parts of the DAKs).

I personally don't hold much stock with the common "woman in the woods" theory.

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Tests have been done on caged bears. The bears didn't show any interest. Doesn't prove anything about the next bear, but it does suggest that one needn't worry too much.

I suspect that ultimately cannisters will become a requirement in pretty much all popular multi-day hiking areas...

Doug

This may still be in the archives, if you search for Daytripper and bear you may find it: last year (I think, perhaps the year before) a bear was regularly bluff charging those lunching at (again, I think) Slant Rock lean to in the ADK's. So this sort of behavior has already begun in the NE. THe bear was nick namer "daytripper".

What is the recommended action in that scenario ?
Feed it (reinforcing the behavior) and walk away or refuse to feed it (discouraging the behavior)
and take your chances with the bluff attacks ?

Not being an expert or trained in this in anyway:

1. Choose non obvious lunch spot, with no evidence of trash.

2. In case of bear, stand close together, wave arms high, make noise. If you have the means to make a noise the bear may have never heard before all the better, do so.

3. If the above fails and the bear bluff charges, hold your ground, continue with #2.

4. Throwing rocks at the bear have been advocated by some sources.

5. If #3, #4 or your nerve fails, calmly back away from your food admiting defeat. Take your gear with you not the food.

6. Make sure to stick around and clean up the mess.

The above is for North Eastern bears, behavior towards grizzlies such as is common out west is different. I've heard mixed opinions about the rock thowing bit. Rocks thrown at a Flowed Lands bears a few seasons back resulted in the most uninterested momentary glance.

Avoiding a bears feeding grounds/ known bear problem areas is likely the best solution of all.....

Warren said:

Not being an expert or trained in this in anyway:
<snip>

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7. If the bear gets your food, don't try to take it back.

Also, I have read that the black bears of the PWN and Canadian West tend to be more aggressive than the eastern bears.

Doug

Warren said:

This may still be in the archives, if you search for Daytripper and bear you may find it: last year (I think, perhaps the year before) a bear was regularly bluff charging those lunching at (again, I think) Slant Rock lean to in the ADK's. So this sort of behavior has already begun in the NE. THe bear was nick namer "daytripper".

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Warren,

No luck on "daytripper bear".

A search on "slant rock bear" brings up a post by John Graham (12-21-2004): "I have been charged by a bear trying to drive me away from my supper at Slant Rock in the Adirondack High Peaks." Sounds like an attempt at intimdation during cooking or eating dinner--not quite a mugging a hiker.

Thanks,

Doug

Re: Daks bears. I was backpacking there with friends several years ago in the Flowed Lands area. We did a mighty fine job of hanging our food, but after hanging it, it took all of 40 minutes for the bear to swipe through the rope on the tree and try to make off with all our food. There were about 5 people who chased after the bear and he ran off. Fortunately, the bag caught on something and he let go. That same night he hit several other lean tos as well.

I believe the Daks now require bear canisters (or are going to?). I sure wouldn't go back without one!

Bears can become trained to "pack = food." They are on Whitney, where the "Bear problem" is particularly acute. People have had their packs snatched while they were standing twenty feet away. Cars have been entered by Bears based on items inside that looked like they were food-assocaisted (say, a clean, empty supermarket bag). When we parked at Whitney Portal last year, our car was as close to empty as we could make it. All that was in it was a change of clothes, and that was hidden under the seats.

I hope our bears do not become as acquisitive as the Whitney bears, but it's largely up to us.

I read a study last fall, that I now cannot find, regarding women and bears. The most they could find was that only Polar Bears were attracted, and then only to used feminine hygiene products. Apparently the blood and tissue acted as an attractant. Grizzlies and Blacks were also included in the study.

Years ago, a ranger in the Shenandoahs told me that another danger with nuisance sow bears is that they will teach their cubs the nuisance behavior. He said it was akin to cubs learning to hunt from their mothers.

I learned from a Yosemite ranger that bears, as TCD states, do indeed learn that particular containers=food, whether the container has ever contained food or not.

Keep in mind too, that bears consider many things food that we do not - toothpaste, medication, shampoo, lip balm, etc.

Keep in mind too, that bears consider many things food that we do not - toothpaste, medication, shampoo, lip balm, etc.

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Or they associate these items as being usually stored with food. I can't tell you how many torn up bear bags I've found with only coffee and toothpaste left in them.

Seeker said:

it took all of 40 minutes for the bear to swipe through the rope on the tree and try to make off with all our food.

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this is a link to an article that describes "The PCT Method" for hanging a food bag.
It's what I do and it's a much better method than simply tying off the rope.

Thanks Chip. I'm certainly familiar with this method, and we used it when we could find branches that would work. But as this article states (quoted below) it's not always as easy solution. We had a number of bags, and when hung together, they were quite heavy.

Daks bears (at least those around the High Peaks area) are not at all like bears in the Whites. They are smart and fat from all of their success and familiarity with humans.

FYI on the bear canister regulation:
Daksbears


"A proper bear bag hang requires that your food be suspended at least 10 feet above the ground, so the counterbalance method requires a branch that is as much as 25 feet above the ground, depending on how tall you are, to what extent you can tie the second food bag to the rope while holding it over your head, the degree of stretch in your rope, the weight of your food, and the sturdiness of the branch.

An effective counterbalance system requires two stuff sacks, no less than 50 feet of rope, and a method for counterbalancing - and retrieving - your food. Of all the bear bagging techniques, counterbalancing requires the most judicious branch selection, more careful distribution of food between two sacks, and more complexity involved retrieving and hanging your food."

PCT method

Chip said:

this is a link to an article that describes "The PCT Method" for hanging a food bag.
It's what I do and it's a much better method than simply tying off the rope.

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In some western parks, the counterbalance method (or a cannister) is mandated. You could be fined if you are caught using the PCT method.

(I'm not expressing an opinion pro or con for either method, just suggesting that one check the local regs.)

Doug

No 8 on the list

#8 Don't make eye contact with the bear. I'd read that this can have a negative effect. So look off to the side (or above or below) so you can still see if he/she is truly charging you.

#9 And there has to some kind of admonition about cleaning soiled shorts...

I just came back from the same area, Sun night at Sages Ravine and Mon night at Brassie Brook campsite which is 1/2 mile south of Bear Mountain. There is an abundance of bears in the area. At Sages Ravine the AMC installed two steel worksite toolboxes for food. One of the tent platforms had fresh claw marks all across the top of it. After looking thru the top I realized why. There were a ton of food wrappers under the platform. I got out as many as I could without lifting the platform up.

Bear Mt, Marcy Dam & to a lesser extent Whitney & Flowed lands get a lot of use & their fair share of campers leaving goodies (food, toothpaste, gorp, etc) so likely bears in these areas are ahead of many of the Northeastern Bears - especially ME bears where they know some of the people in the woods carry noisy firesticks (not noisy carbide tip leki's )

The Western Blacks are even breaking into cars which car campers in the northeast still consider a safe place for food.