shortening crampon points

i recall reading a while back that crampons were designed for glacier travel and are not really a great fit for the northeast for several reasons.

i don't like alot of the traction devices (non crampon) because they have no front points, limitations on where they will get you and they seem to have a much higher failure rate than traditional full on crampons.

soooo.......

i have been thinking of chopping off the bottoms of the spikes, shortening them about 50%. This would lower the center of gravity, make it a smoother walk, retain points in the front for very steep sections and i would imagine just be better all around.

is this a horrible idea? i imagine someone would have made and sold these years ago. am i not thinking of something? would they not grab well in steep snow?

if this is indeed a good idea, any ideas how to chop them as a grinder should heat the metal too much?

thanks y'all

I think there is somehting new out there that is kind of what your trying to do - I have seen them around but can't recall the name - I think they have 10 or 12 shorter points and can fit almost anything - even a sneaker. But they look like they will be much better than yak trx, etc.. They were metal, etc...

AMC pinkham notch had a pair on display a few weeks ago - probably still do.

damn - I can't remeber the name of them - sure someone here will though

Kahtoola.

I don't know anything about them, but I've seen many of their ads in Backpacker and Outdoors.

like most things, practice makes perfect. I think full crampons are great once you learn to walk comfortably in them.

spencer

I'm not an ice climber, but I did see one on TV once

I have seen videos of ice climbers doing "mixed route" climbs, where there is lots of exposed rock. The ice climbers did all types of crazy moves to get a purchase on rock with their crampon points. It didn't appear that those climbers had shortened their bottom-facing points. I think the point of what I learned from watching is that I should learn to live with the points the way they are. I believe that the crampon points are the length that they are due to a lot of trial and error by old-school folk like Yvon Chouinard.

This is my second season winter hiking in the Whites, and my first winter season summiting 4k footers. This winter I have been fortunate to climb with a few folks with a lot more experience then me, and they keep hammering home to me that you have to get all the bottom facing points in the ice at all times... If I had shorter points while on the steep slopes, the crampons would have imparted less "resistance" to my falling. I had enough trouble staying upright going downhill even with regular length points!

However, on lower-angled slopes where traction is a convenience instead of a life-and-death necessity, perhaps stubby points would be convenient.

> I'm not an ice climber, but I did see one on TV once

I saw one in the mirror this morning. (I used to ice climb.)

> is [shortening the points] a horrible idea?

IMO, yes.

Have never been tempted to shorten the points. Don't remember any difficulty tripping either. The points will shrink as a result of resharpening worn points.

Front points are designed for climbing steep (eg >45 deg) ice. They are not generally needed for hiking and are a risk to one's calves and pants legs. (The difference between 10 and 12 pointed crampoins used to be the front points.)

BTW, expert ice climbers can climb up to 70 deg ice using just the bottom points...

I just put a detailed description of how to sharpen crampons in the thread on sharpening crampons. Use a hand file. A grinder will overhead and destroy the temper of the metal.

BTW2, I wouldn't even consider aluminum crampons for water ice (ie the kind ususally found on NE trails) or mixed rock and ice. Aluminum won't hold a point on either.

Doug

Kahtoola - yes - thanks that is what I was thinking of.

I agree with most here - I wouldn't file them down. A pair of 10 points won't work for you?

You asked if it is a horrible idea and I think it is. I think a pair of 10 pts or those kahtoola things would be your best bet.

The Kahtoolas are now available in steel...YAY!

Seattle Manufacturing Corporation

Incidentally, you can use a grinder to sharpen or shorten crampon points, but ONLY if you are patient enough to do it VERY slowly and using plenty of water as coolant. The aluminum Kahtoolas are great for travelling fast in frozen snow conditions ( remember snow?) , but do not fare well on rocks, water ice, or on steep terrain.

ok, little more background info and why....

i have used my G10's for backpacking and dayhikes for 5 years or so with no worries. i don't have any issues walking in them on snow or ice or a little mixed, although as we all know rock and ice and snow together can be tough sometimes as your ankles twist and contort, not too bad but it could be better.

i was thinking of the shorties mostly for days when crampons are a little overkill and uncomfortable but traction of somekind is really useful or necessary. my last few times up monadnock have been in these conditions. just enough ice to need something, but crampons seemed like over kill. i thought the shorties would be far better, stronger and reliable than yaktrax etc and far more friendly to the ankles.

i don't think i would be using the shorties for backpacking trips.

i also have just bought plastic boots and step-ins to match and so i feel like experimenting with the old pair.

please also note..... i am entertaining lots of crackhead ideas......i am also thinking of making a pair of oversized strong nylon shorts with full velco on the sides for easy on/off, foam cushioning on the buttocks inside the shorts and a sheet of plastic on the outside. the ultimate in glisading wear!

maybe even strap on sled things for the feet, not nearly as fast as skis, but certainly more efficient than just sliding down in your boots. i am already shopping around for helmets!

just having some fun in the snow.
thank you all for the input.

My wife bought a pair of "Icers" for walking around town. They look pretty good for the in between seasons when full crampons aren't necessary. She got them at a drug store for $39.99 CDN.

I believe they are the same type of studs used in studded tires. They even have Vibram soles.


-Shayne

the starchild said:

i was thinking of the shorties mostly for days when crampons are a little overkill and uncomfortable but traction of somekind is really useful or necessary. my last few times up monadnock have been in these conditions. just enough ice to need something, but crampons seemed like over kill. i thought the shorties would be far better, stronger and reliable than yaktrax etc and far more friendly to the ankles.

Click to expand...

The traditional tool for these conditions is instep crampons--typically with 4 points. I have seen mention of 6-pointers. Just googled for them and found several brands. In general they look intermediate between full and insteps.

Also googled for and found 8-pointers.
(No hits on 2-pointers, though... )

My usual opinions about steel (ok) vs aluminum (not ok) apply here too.

Doug

These SMCs remind me of a crampon that was standard-issue when I got into climbing in the 70s.

They were called "Salewa Adjustables" and were widely used. They were hinged aluminum 12-points and OK for general winter mountaineering, as well as Grade 3+ ice routes.

They did require frequent sharpening, but I used my pair for several seasons before I replaced them with Chiounard ridged steel 12-points.

I think there still is a place for aluminum crampons, given their weight advantage. The G-12 step-ins I now use for hlking are quire heavy and for trail use really overkill.

Maybe I should sharpen those old Salewas up!

cb

TitanKevla 86 point crampons

I have patented a product which I call TitanKevla. It is a compound consisting of a molecular blend, with some sub-atomic subtleties, that is extremely hard and durable and so lightweight you won't even know you're wearing it. The compound consists of titanium and kevlar and is quite "workable" under a narrow range of temperature, pressure and sub-fractural stresses that allow you to shape or trim it. We are even researching the application of nanotechnology to deliver small but hot electric currents to the very tips of TitanKevla. This way, ice climbers might send a jolt to help carve a toehold. They might even be useful for heating a demitasse of espresso on those damn unplanned bivuoacs!

Un-belay! Un-belay!