A dozen ways to die

[Puma concolor]

Interesting line of discussion on Guy Waterman. Funny that I didn't think of him until a little while after my original post. Given the premise that we all have to go sometime, succumbing to a relatively peaceful death while in a mountain setting doesn't seem like an objectionable way to go to me. Would be a fitting way to go on many levels.

It's also interesting how certain scenes and quotes from movies stay with you. Twenty years after the fact, I can still remember watching the final scene in Legends of the Fall when the main character gets mauled by a bear with the final line of the movie being "It was a good death." Seemed cool to me at the time as I sat there all comfy in my theatre seat with my bucket of popcorn. But really, no thanks on that one. Final moments would be filled with terror and pain while watching yourself get ripped apart. One star out of five.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

The talk of Owls Head reminded me of the most recent winter trip there in mid-March. As we paused for a snack on the Wilderness Trail just before it turns left for Black Pond, a small group (three, IIRC) came steaming along. We asked them where they were headed, and their destination was the same as ours, although they were going to take the trail and its major river crossings. We offered to have them do the two bushwhacks with us, but they brushed us off and were quickly on their way. We didn't see them again until mid-afternoon, just after we came off the steeps. They were looking a bit soggy/cold, and said that those river crossing had not gone well at all. And this time they took us up on the offer to follow us back via the BP bushwhack.

 

[sierra]

Interesting line of discussion on Guy Waterman. Funny that I didn't think of him until a little while after my original post. Given the premise that we all have to go sometime, succumbing to a relatively peaceful death while in a mountain setting doesn't seem like an objectionable way to go to me. Would be a fitting way to go on many levels.

It's also interesting how certain scenes and quotes from movies stay with you. Twenty years after the fact, I can still remember watching the final scene in Legends of the Fall when the main character gets mauled by a bear with the final line of the movie being "It was a good death." Seemed cool to me at the time as I sat there all comfy in my theatre seat with my bucket of popcorn. But really, no thanks on that one. Final moments would be filled with terror and pain while watching yourself get ripped apart. One star out of five.

Your post reminded me of a quote I've never forgotten. Just before Scott Fisher perished on MT. Everest, he made this comment to someone before leaving for the summit. " The summit or death, either way I win". I've thought about that qoute on several occasions trying to understand what he meant by it. On one occasion it reminded me of a climb I did on a CO 14er. I was way in high up and encountered a bullitproof snowslope of mega dicey proportions. I had my axe and my crampons but the crossing was tough, one slip and it was more then 1000ft down to the talus. I sat there for sometime weighing my choice of going for it or retreating. I'd spent my most of my life climbing and this seemed to be the test, I'd dreamed of big peaks for years. I decided, I couldnt live with turning back, all those days in the hills came down to this. I crossed the slope and summited, every hike and climb before that comulated in that one climb. Retreating would have been just to hard to live with.

 

[Raven]

Here is a link to the Backpacker article A DOZEN WAYS TO DIE. It's a very interesting article.
http://www.backpacker.com/survival_guide_skills_a_dozen_ways_to_die/skills/12228

Good read - thanks Ed.

This made sense as well: "In spots like Mt. Rainier and New Hampshire's Presidential Range, cold is villain number one."

Regarding the conversation about the "best way to go out," I think hypothermia would be tolerable, relatively speaking, but I might even enjoy being one of the 1 or 2 people a year mauled by a cougar.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

Here's another possibility the article did not mention.

 

[jrbren]

Interesting line of discussion on Guy Waterman. Funny that I didn't think of him until a little while after my original post. Given the premise that we all have to go sometime, succumbing to a relatively peaceful death while in a mountain setting doesn't seem like an objectionable way to go to me. Would be a fitting way to go on many levels.

It's also interesting how certain scenes and quotes from movies stay with you. Twenty years after the fact, I can still remember watching the final scene in Legends of the Fall when the main character gets mauled by a bear with the final line of the movie being "It was a good death." Seemed cool to me at the time as I sat there all comfy in my theatre seat with my bucket of popcorn. But really, no thanks on that one. Final moments would be filled with terror and pain while watching yourself get ripped apart. One star out of five.

Yeah, I remember the line. I cannot imagine getting mauled by a bear being a "good death". I would like to die by going to sleep in a warm comfy bed and never waking up. I have never come close to death in back country to the best of my knowledge. I was running on route 70 north of Worcester (MA) last month and had a car pass another car and pass me by about 6-12" at about 60-70mph (passing speed), I generally think of road running as by far more dangerous then hiking in the northeast USA mountains.

 

[Raven]

Yeah, I remember the line. I cannot imagine getting mauled by a bear being a "good death". I would like to die by going to sleep in a warm comfy bed and never waking up. I have never come close to death in back country to the best of my knowledge. I was running on route 70 north of Worcester (MA) last month and had a car pass another car and pass me by about 6-12" at about 60-70mph (passing speed), I generally think of road running as by far more dangerous then hiking in the northeast USA mountains.

I was thinking while reading the article that if they included the deaths while driving to the trailhead, I would guess that would be #1 by a long margin.

Someone on here has a great signature that says something like "being mauled by a grizzly is one of those wilderness experiences where the novelty wears off almost right away." I laugh every time I read it. And speaking of laughter, sarcasm, and pure joy people who laugh live longer lives.

This kind of data would be interesting in light of a book like "Deep Survival" which would look at not only the circumstances of death (e.g hypothermia, heart attack) but also the personality traits/characteristics of the individuals who actually die in those circumstances. I recall a quote by Abbey which describes my "Freedom of the Hills":

"do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am - a reluctant enthusiast....a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it’s still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep your brain in your head and your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those desk-bound men and women with their hearts in a safe deposit box, and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this; You will outlive the bastards.”
― Edward Abbey

Those are all the words I need sometimes. And it's why I will be on Liberty in a number of hours

 

[DayTrip]

When I said "rope" I wasn't implying I'd be rappelling down ice faces with ice rivets and all kinds of technical stuff. I was talking more for use as a balancing aid where poles would be useless so that you can stand at a good angle on crampons or microspikes to grip best. I always find going up these difficult sections is much easier than descending and figured some sort of rope would be helpful staying in control. If 550 paracord is not sufficient what would be the most common grade of rope used for this type of activity? How much does a 50' section weigh? Cost?

It's easy to say "just turnaround" but in my experience I encounter most of these tricky sections while descending and you've already "turned around". There isn't a go back option so I'd like to be ready for the situation.

 

[DougPaul]

When I said "rope" I wasn't implying I'd be rappelling down ice faces with ice rivets and all kinds of technical stuff. I was talking more for use as a balancing aid where poles would be useless so that you can stand at a good angle on crampons or microspikes to grip best. I always find going up these difficult sections is much easier than descending and figured some sort of rope would be helpful staying in control. If 550 paracord is not sufficient what would be the most common grade of rope used for this type of activity? How much does a 50' section weigh? Cost?

I'd suggest 7 or 8 mm climbing rope. Not only is strength important, but handling is also important. Even if smaller line is strong enough, it is too small to handle well (small knots are hard to untie, small line cuts into flesh, etc). (Wear gloves to protect your hands from burns--use leather or wool (nylon and polyester melt...).)

For comparison, 9mm is standard for glacier travel, 10--11mm is standard for technical climbing.

A 7-8mm line would be useful as a handline, for lowering or raising packs, or maybe even a belay (if you have a climber in the party to set anchors and make sure the belay and tie-in are done properly).

Never take the rated strength of a rope at face value--a knot reduces the strength by 1/3 to 1/2, and abrasion, sun, and age will reduce it even further. Furthermore, peak loads in climbing are dynamic, not static. For instance, a 150lb falling climber can exert a load of up to 3000lb on parts of the belay system. In the case of a handline or lowering or raising a pack, I'd expect the dynamic loads could be up to several times the load weight.

Doug
ex technical climber

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I use 6mm rope, and it's about 150' long. Any thicker/longer would make it too heavy and I doubt I'd carry it which would defeat the purpose. You can buy the rope at a good sporting goods store, like EMS or REI.

Mostly I loop it around a small tree/boulder on descent, and since tension is being applied constantly, it's ability to withstand the forces of a fall will not be tested.

In years past, when I needed to create a harness and belay my Newf, I'd carry a 100' length of 10mm static rope.

YMMV.

 

[DayTrip]

Thanks guys. I'll check into that at the EMS in North Conway next time I'm up there.