AMC Four Thousand Footer Committee e-mail address?

[Northeast 115er]

i'd rather recieve my forms,patches,info,acceptance into a club, from a slow easy goin' person than a fast grumpy person!!!!!
if i was a votin' for someone to take over the committee,i wouldn't be votin' for a certain someone!!! you make the guess!!!
p.s.
i was gonna say what is really on my mind, but, i won't!!!hey you!!!

And yes, I agree with post'r boy

Well said, post'r boy.

By the above statements, I think you guys may have missed the point of the poll http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3662 . It was not meant to be a poll as to which person should run the 111ers, but if it should be run by the AMC Four Thousand Footer Committee, or separate from the AMC by members of the 111ers.

During the whole exchange on the "111 poll" thread I can't recall any name calling. Now you (Post'r Boy) find something in the thread and feel the need. Calling someone that has offered his time to help out Gene "Fast" is ok. But "grumpy"? I have only seen an exchange of facts. Maybe you should read all the statements in that thread again. I saw nothing bad about your friend Gene, only that he was "overburdened". As far as i can see that was praising Gene for taking on the duties of all the lists, not badmouthing (or grumping) about him.

 

[ken]

He didn't tell me what the fee is, but pointed out that I'd have to be accepted in the New England Four Thousand Footer Club before I could be accepted into the 111ers of the Northeastern United States.

here it is - this is the first change since the 4000 footer committee took over the 111ers - you used to get your congratulations letter and patch from priscilla robertson in less than 2 weeks (she didnt care if you were approved by the FTFC first) - i was hoping to keep it that way when i heard that priscilla was retiring, but it wasnt meant to be - - now you have to be approved by one club to enter the other $5 for n.h. 48, $5 for n.eng. 67 then you can get your northeast 111 for $5 more - oh and $8 for n.y., (but from the 46ers you do get a couple of thier magazines in the mail during the year for your membership fee).

 

[Puma concolor]

From what I've been able to gather, everything right now is in a state of flux regarding both Gene Daniell's level of involvement with the FTFC and the Northeast 111ers. Since the 111ers thread a couple of months ago, I've exchanged cordial letters with Gene and it's fairly obvious to me that there are a lot of different ideas out there. As stated above, Eric Savage is going to be taking over with patches and correspondence regarding the traditional FTFC lists after a lot of years of Gene handling this function.

Regarding the 111ers, the club is clearly in a phase of transition. Priscilla Robertson has basically turned the Club over to Gene Daniell and the FTFC but exactly how things are going to hash out is still a question mark. There are a few 111ers on the Committee and it doesn't seem that everyone agrees on the best direction. In the end, there could wind up being a subcommittee to the FTFC for the 111ers, which would leave the Club with an identity only partially attached to the FTFC. Or, it may just wind up being that the regular FTFC will now handle 4 lists instead of 3. Gene suggests the possibility of a 5-person 111er sub-committee with representation from the ADKS, Catskills and New England. Who knows how it all will work out?

Anyway, in my second letter to Gene, I reiterated my desire to do a 111er newsletter once everything gets hashed out. I think I could have a lot of fun doing such a newsletter. Slow and easy or fast and grumpy, everyone involved just wants a good club.

 

[trailbiscuit]

So, let me get this straight...
You walk to the top of a bunch of bumps for your own personal reasons, and then get grumpy because a body of people that's not even a quasi-governing body doesn't send you your recognition note fast enough. Seems trivial to me.

IMHO, the FTFC has done a great job of organizing and building enthusiasm, especially for volunteers. Additionally, I think there is enough positive energy and brain power on this site and in the hiking communtiy to assist and bolster the committee and Gene's work.

Did I just agree with post'r boy?

 

[ken]

ken, it's obvious to me and i'm sure alot of other people on this site that your very disappointed with the goings on in regards to the 111 club merging with the ftfc. why do you feel the need to continually bring this subject up,(i.m.o.) creating a negative atmosphere here?

i hope it is obvious, but the subject on delays was brought up at least 3 posts before i said anything - - - i think it is a shame that it has happened (the takeover) without anyone in the club knowing it - if the 46ers or 35ers were going to become part of the AMC (yes we do have AMC chapters in n.y., AMC is not exclusively new england) i am sure members would know about it way before the "merge" happens and have some input - i hate to hear the stories from other hikers about thier dealings with the 4000 clubs and i feel that finishing those lists should be a better experience for them than it is right now - maybe you aren't out there with others enough to hear it all (or maybe you just hang with a few buddies in one area?), but i am always out in n.y. & new eng. and hear plenty - now i am hearing these same stories about the 111ers in addition to the 48 & 67 - you can read about them on this thread - it had started already even before the answer to raymond - it is obvious that help is needed - did you read the response raymond got???? that would have never happened one year ago - - i feel that with the newsletter that mark wants to get going and with someone who cares handling the correspondence, certificates, patches, etc. it can be even better than the 111ers that we knew before - right now the members are not informed of anything from any 4000 club (newsletter would be very nice) - it would give more of a club atmosphere, a sense of belonging - i hope something better (or at least as good as one year ago) comes out of the "club", but so far it has gone the other way (please read the response raymond got carefully and realize that it was not that way before) .
and since you like p.s.

i'd rather recieve my forms,patches,info,acceptance into a club, from a slow easy goin' person than a fast grumpy person!!!!!
if i was a votin' for someone to take over the committee,i wouldn't be votin' for a certain someone!!! you make the guess!!!
p.s.
i was gonna say what is really on my mind, but, i won't!!! hey you!!!.

p.s.
as for waiting for your peak list from a "slow..." - if you don't know what you have to hike for the list, it may be a long time before you get started - maybe you know a few that you have to hike - then you finish them and now have too wait till you get the list to get started again - a response in a reasonable amount of time is what should be expected - believe it or not there are still a lot of people that don't have the internet (and many that do, who don't even know how to use a search engine to find out what they want to know).
as for "grumpy"? no not grumpy, just concerned that the aspirants working on the 111 may not have as nice an experience as in the past and that the 111ers will go the opposite from what many feel it should be after priscilla's retirement.

The Adirondack 46rs are a class organization.
I do not know how the AMC 4000-footers run things, but the Adirondack 46rs are a great example of how to run an efficient and personable peakbagging/hiking/conservation club.

this man is right - i will add that the 35ers are the same

 

[bobandgeri]

Okay - so I wrote to Gene offering to help out in any way I could - maintain the web site, take on a list and manage it, etc.

Response was that it is all handled by Eric Savage now, as well as a long statement of his belief that it should all be handled by a single person.

In my resposne I asked for Eric's email address (does anybody have it) so I could write to him (with the same offer) and asking about the NEHH info packet I sent in money for 2 months ago. Gene's response was that it needed to be update due to the Wiggle Brook Bridge being out. Basically my request has been sitting there for 2 months :<

I have provided him with the directions on how to bypass the bridge outage that I hope he will add to the info packet.

 

[Puma concolor]

Bob and Geri -

[email protected]

 

[Tom Rankin]

Okay - so I wrote to Gene offering to help out in any way I could - maintain the web site, take on a list and manage it, etc.

Response was that it is all handled by Eric Savage now, as well as a long statement of his belief that it should all be handled by a single person.

In my resposne I asked for Eric's email address (does anybody have it) so I could write to him (with the same offer) and asking about the NEHH info packet I sent in money for 2 months ago. Gene's response was that it needed to be update due to the Wiggle Brook Bridge being out. Basically my request has been sitting there for 2 months :<

I have provided him with the directions on how to bypass the bridge outage that I hope he will add to the info packet.

That's a little depressing to read. I sent in a request for the NEHH info so long ago, I forgot when I sent it.

I sent in my list for the 115's at the end of September, and the check still has not been cashed.

 

[bobandgeri]

Tom,

Check out our Latest Hikes page for many of the Maine and Bushwack hikes on the NEHH list. We post our trip reports there with directions, and GPS routes.

http://www.rbhayes.net/latesthike.html

 

[Sherpa John]

We all need to keep in mind that the individuals in these specific committees are ALL individuals whom have family's, full time jobs and some kind of alter-life they participate in. There involvment in the FTFC is strictly on a volunteer/have free time basis. Lets all cut them some slack. Currently 250 people (esti.) apply for JUST the 48 per year. Thats alot of date and essay reading.

Now.. in to add my 2 cents. I'm going to e.s.s. and w.s.tv before I h.t.b tonight. I've had a long night of e.a.v. for my h.f. whom I hope will e.t.f in JAN. of '05.

TTFN
Sherpa John

 

[ken]

That's a little depressing to read. I sent in a request for the NEHH info so long ago, I forgot when I sent it.
I sent in my list for the 115's at the end of September, and the check still has not been cashed.

We all need to keep in mind that the individuals in these specific committees are ALL individuals whom have family's, full time jobs and some kind of alter-life they participate in. There involvment in the FTFC is strictly on a volunteer/have free time basis. Lets all cut them some slack. Currently 250 people (esti.) apply for JUST the 48 per year. Thats alot of date and essay reading.

it definitely should be kept should be kept in mind! - when you don't get an answer in 2 weeks, dont worry it may be because the individual is on vacation (some companies give 2 weeks - city or state jobs give 5-6) - when you dont get an answer in 2-3 months it is time to wonder and ask around to see how long it normally takes for a response - after that "good luck".
here is the normal response time as of the start of this year:
catskill 3500 club = 2-3 weeks (about 150 per year)
adirondack 46ers = 2-3 weeks (about 250 per year)
ADK firetower challenge = 1-1.5 months (first year was about 20)
all new england 4000' = 4-6 months (about 350 per year)
northeast 111 = 2-3 weeks in the past - - now it is anyones guess (about 25 per year).
keep in mind that the above time schedule is just for us regular hikers - if you are someone "important" that may make the papers you will get your patch as soon as you finish right on the top (and probably for free)!
see: http://www.nhpolitics.com/ that little thing in his hand is what we all would like waiting for us on top of our last "48er".
you are correct about them giving up their time to do it - running all three new england lists is a lot for anyone to handle - it should be spread around amongst 3 different people - now that there is a fourth list involved that is even more work - what these individuals should realize is that when they don't have the time to do it they should get some help from other volunteers so that there aren't so many finishers left wondering "what happened to the stuff that i sent ___ months ago" - the completers of the lists shouldn't have to wait an unreasonable amount of time for something that they have paid for - there have been a few that have volunteered to help out - lets see if it happens...

 

[Puma concolor]

Ken -

I know you mean well and I'm still with you, bro', but I think everyone at this point pretty much gets your point. Debating with or arguing with everyone who has an opposing viewpoint is counterproductive, particularly if you want to be a front man for a club such as the 111ers. In the letter I received from Gene, he was extending you an Olive Branch, going so far as to state that he might turn over patches and correspondence to you for the 111ers. Eric is taking over for the other lists, so clearly the issue you bring up is being addressed. Move on. Right now, you're irking a lot of people ... many of whom are very knowledgeable and some of whom are friends with Gene.

 

[Sherpa John]

Ken -

Move on. Right now, you're irking a lot of people ... many of whom are very knowledgeable and some of whom are friends with Gene.

yuppppppppppppppppppp

 

[bobandgeri]

FYI - we heard back from Eric Savage over the weekend. Although he also states he doesn't need help, he did say he would come visit VFTT and provide an update.

 

[Nadine]

I agree with Post'r Boy

 

[Eric Savage]

FYI - we heard back from Eric Savage over the weekend. Although he also states he doesn't need help, he did say he would come visit VFTT and provide an update.

Bear with me as I am new to VFTT.

I read through three threads (this one plus the polls on how long it should take to get patches and who should run the 111ers) and these are a few thoughts/responses. Apologies if they are no longer important to anyone or if I'm offending by not filing each comment in the most appropriate place.

To clarify the FTFC relationship to AMC: We are, as some have mentioned, a sub-committee of the AMC. The major distinction I see in terms of attitude/control/etc. is between the paid staff and the volunteers. Much, if not most, of the work done by the AMC is done by volunteers. Most notably, the individual chapters are run by an all volunteer committee.
That said, the FTFC is arguably the most independent committee in the whole AMC. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who can even explain where we fit on the organizational chart (if such a thing exists).

Processing time: I sympathize with those who have been waiting a long time for a response (and share the concerns about trying to cash checks too long after they were written). In case it hasn't been made clear, the latest delays are due to the state of transition in which we find ourselves. It is my sincere hope that once I have taken complete responsibility for the three 'traditional' lists and have caught up on the backlog, processing times will be much better (for one, I will not have nearly as many other responsibilities as Gene has had). Two points that I read and want to echo strongly are that we are volunteers with real lives, so some delays are inevitable and that Gene has done a lot of work for the FTFC and while constructive criticism is a good thing, it should be seasoned with deep appreciation for all of his efforts.

We have plans to post the applications online (with the exception of the 111ers). I hope to have this done soon (two weeks?). That will give those who are wired a way to get applications quickly and leave me more time to deal with applications and those requests that do come in by regular mail (after the backlog is dealt with of course).

If there are other question/threads and/or issues that you feel I could/should respond to, let me know.

 

[Stan]

Welcome Eric, to VFTT and thank you for taking up voluntary work with the Four Thousand Footer Committee. On the basis of the one hike we did together, a bushwhack to the Peak above the Nubble, I can report to those who do not know you that you are quite competent in guiding any effort and in turn quite capable of accepting guidance.

As for the location of the FTFC on AMC's org chart, I believe it is off to the side, the side that's enroute to some peak with a hiker cleaning an occasional waterbar on the way.

 

[amstony]

Bear with me as I am new to VFTT.

Processing time: I sympathize with those who have been waiting a long time for a response (and share the concerns about trying to cash checks too long after they were written). In case it hasn't been made clear, the latest delays are due to the state of transition in which we find ourselves. It is my sincere hope that once I have taken complete responsibility for the three 'traditional' lists and have caught up on the backlog, processing times will be much better (for one, I will not have nearly as many other responsibilities as Gene has had). Two points that I read and want to echo strongly are that we are volunteers with real lives, so some delays are inevitable and that Gene has done a lot of work for the FTFC and while constructive criticism is a good thing, it should be seasoned with deep appreciation for all of his efforts.

If there are other question/threads and/or issues that you feel I could/should respond to, let me know.

Eric,

Welcome to VFTT and good luck on this endeavor. If you need assistance processing any of this big backlog let me know, perhaps we can coordinate a night or weekend day to review the apps and start processing them. I know if you need any assitance there are people on this board who would be glad to help.

Tony

 

[bill bowden]

Hi Eric:

VFTT is also a good place to get information on bushwhack trips and routes.

Knowing many of the parties involved; we didn't really think a huge number of people would ever do these lists, especially people we didn't know or else people concerned with recognition of their achievement by a very relaxed organization.

It's wonderful that so many people have actually found the lists and the work to find the peaks and then mail things in. It is extraordinarily decent of folks to offer to help rather than simply complain when a pretty rickety system falls farther behind. To use this help in the since of organizing tasks rather than simply offloading it to a new volunteer calls for a higher degree of organization and management technique than many hikers can muster, hence the one person level of activity.

 

[ChrisB]

Hey Eric Savage, Where ya Been?

Eric,

Glad to see you are alive and well. Last time we met was at Gathering 2 or 3 I think!

In my travels around the 100 highest List, we also bumped fenders in the fire tower at the summit of Snow (Chain o' Ponds) where you described a project you were doing related to GPS data for visible summits and landmarks from the top of each 100 Highest peak. I wonder if your printout for Snow is still in the tower?

Glad to see you are keeping busy in the List business! When you get those applications online I might finally get around to registering for a 100-Highest patch.

Thanks for all your efforts and visit us often!

cb