deliverance moments

[DougPaul]

As to the lens flare question: No, I don't think you're being a wet blanket. I asked the same question myself and actually had the original file and picture looked at by a few so-called "experts". Inconclusive at best without examining the camera and/or recreating the conditions. The only real oddity is that the light reflects into a place that should be in shadow, tho that isn't out of the realm of possibility. Given the light conditions on the summit that day, a beam of sunlight could have caused the reflection of the green moss on the rocks.

Overall, for me it was just a very odd coincidence to have that kind thing show up given what happened at the time. I've taken thousands of pictures with that camera all over the Whites in different weather conditions. There are a few other obvious lens flares in some other photos, but they're not as large or close by or that color intensity.

Remember a flare is caused by internal reflections in the lens and/or camera. (Has nothing to do with light from the scene.) It looks to me like the sun is to the upper right out of frame. A possible scenario: the direct sunlight is diffused slightly by a thin cloud layer, hits the lens, and is then flared into a dark portion of the scene. Not sure how to account for the color except that there are 2 green pixels for each red and blue in most digital camera sensors (wild guess that it might be a cause). The flared light might also be reflecting off some camera internal structure and hitting the sensor from an unusual angle which might also cause some wierd color effects. And reflections off coated lens surfaces can impart some color.

The shape--a ball with a spray out to one side--is appropriate for a flare.

Doug

 

[Seeker]

I think Doug has it right. Also, a group of us were hiking in that area and heard some very upset ravens that were downright creepy sounding.

Not to rain on your parade or anything...I can imagine being unnerved up there all alone.

 

[dr_wu002]

Remember a flare is caused by internal reflections in the lens and/or camera. (Has nothing to do with light from the scene.) It looks to me like the sun is to the upper right out of frame. A possible scenario: the direct sunlight is diffused slightly by a thin cloud layer, hits the lens, and is then flared into a dark portion of the scene. Not sure how to account for the color except that there are 2 green pixels for each red and blue in most digital camera sensors (wild guess that it might be a cause). The flared light might also be reflecting off some camera internal structure and hitting the sensor from an unusual angle which might also cause some wierd color effects. And reflections off coated lens surfaces can impart some color.

The shape--a ball with a spray out to one side--is appropriate for a flare.

Doug

I can definitely see what you're saying. But I think what Periwinkle is trying to point out is that isn't it a coincidence that the flare thing happened the same moment when she heard that awful, screaming sound.

At least it wasn't the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man!

 

[hikeritz]

There seems to be three subthreads here: encounters with scary animals, encounters with scary humans, and encounters of "another" kind. I'll offer something for all three. For the animals, ironically it was my wife's first backpacking trip. I took her, our son and our dog (a semi-pampered but very trail-worthy cocker spaniel) in to Three Ponds near Rumney. A nice, short, easy hike and all went wonderfully until twilight arrived. That's when the pack of coyotes started their choir practice a very short distance from our tent (at least it sounded close). I don't know who was more spooked...my wife or our dog.

For the scary humans, I'm afraid it might have been me. Check out this picture from one of my trips:

http://home.comcast.net/~hikeritz/hike_pix/stupidsuits.jpg

For now, let's just say the suits were for bug protection. I know at least one man and his son hiked by and saw us dressed like this.

And for the "other" encounter, all I really have is a story (in saga form!) I wrote after many hikes to Desolation (shelter):

http://home.comcast.net/~mcritz/prose/songs/trail_tale.htm

 

[DougPaul]

I can definitely see what you're saying. But I think what Periwinkle is trying to point out is that isn't it a coincidence that the flare thing happened the same moment when she heard that awful, screaming sound.

If the green spot is indeed lens flare, then it is coincidence, pure, simple, and meaningless. Since the optics and physics don't change, anytime that picture is taken under that lighting and with that camera, a green flare will appear in the picture.

Just because she heard a scary noise about the same time she took a picture with an optical artifact doesn't mean that there is any connection. A single co-occurrance does not imply a relation.

And, as Brenda (seeker) suggests, it is quite likely that the scary noise was just a raven screeching. If so, then there is no reason to be scared by the noise.

Looks to me like both events are probably just common, ordinary events that happened close to each other. The cure is just to look for a logical explanation before concluding that something strange is going on.

Doug

 

[SteveHiker]

As for looking into the light and seeing things, lots of people have commented on seeing images. Reminds me of a Rorschach test. I see the same face five times in different positions (but that's from the original large file). I dunno. Somewhere I remember reading that it's some kind of brain function to see human images in the unknown. At least that explains the image of Jesus on toast that got Ebayed, I suppose!

The term for seeing faces where there are none is pareidolia.

Check out these for more information:

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/lenin.html

http://www.skepdic.com/pareidol.html

as for the sound you heard, perhaps just over the other side of the summit, someone was greeted by Dr Wu and his secret sign.

 

[Periwinkle]

Whoa....lots of comments. Sorry if this is sort of hijacking your thread, Tut.

Answering the last few questions/comments:

• I don't remember the Pemi thread at all. Was it BC?
• Flare Comments: The sun was in the upper right of the photo. The outline is visible in the original larger file. I'm sure that's part of the reason, along with the scattered clouds. I don't question that.
• No "rain on [my] parade", Brenda! I'm very open minded about the whole thing.
• Nice saga, Hikeritz.
• The Coincidence: That was exactly my point, Dr. Wu. Glad to know that came across.

I don't question anyone's opinion about this. I'm sure there is probably some very logical explanation for the whole experience. Including the fact that I was so scared -- it was my first real 4K solo -- I was a little anxious to begin with and primed with adrenalin.

In the same vein, I am a logical and rational person. If I'm afraid of something, I make a determined effort to face my fear and try to conquer it. In this case, I didn't. I was truly scared. I tried to rationalize it at the time and almost convinced myself it was a bird, animal or person, anything rational or logical, until I heard it again. My hair was standing on end. Every bit of my genetic flight or fight response was screaming "FLIGHT, b!t@h, FLIGHT! Get Out of Here. NOW!" I cracked. I ran. Poor decision? Oh, yeah, I've admitted that. But that is how I felt. Utterly terrified, just needing to get away from there.

Ultimately, I think it all comes to down to the subjectivity of human experience. I know what I felt. It can be explained logically after the fact, and I have no problem with that. It's just that I remember what it felt like -- it wasn't rational or logical, and I can't say with any degree of certainty that it was one thing or another. As I've said, I'm open minded, including having no fear of acknowledging the unknown, whatever that might be.

 

[Grumpy]

Looking over the image you posted, Periwinkle, I'm quite disinclined to think that green patch is caused by lens flare or a light "leak" of some kind in the camera. The type of lens flare we'd usually see under the generally cloudy conditions (but relatively bright sky) you had when the picture was shot would manifest itself as an overall increase of "brightness" and loss of contrast in the foreground shadow areas. The pattern is not characteristic of that caused by any light leakage that I've ever seen.

In nearly 40 years of doing photography professionally, the only time I've seen anything like that green patch show up "naturally" in an image is when there's visible patch of fog or cloud (water vapor) in the scene, with a fairly bright colored light illuminating it. In this case, if the illumination were sunlight, we might see the green predominate, but there also would be evidence of other spectral colors present.

If we were considering a film image here, my prime suspicion would be that we were looking at the results of a processing error of some kind. I've actually seen that color show up in shadow areas on color slide film (Ektachrome) processed in exhausted (or nearly exhausted) chemistry. I've seen all kinds of weird colors show up in digital images, but never quite in the way the green appears in yours.

So I'm baffled, in trying to produce a "concrete" explanation for what you captured in that image.

Sometimes the Mountain Spirits just visit, I guess. A few years ago my daughter (Primadonna Grumpy) and I were enjoying PBJ sandwiches for lunch while seated in a comfy spot just below the very apex of Wright Peak, in the Adirondacks. Suddenly, a strong wind blew through, accompanied by a pronounced and very eerie whistle. The wind picked up my bandana -- which I'd laid on a rock next to me to dry out -- whirled it around a few times, then dropped it, like someone doing the dance of the seven veils. And just as quickly as it came, the wind left us. It was a magic, if somewhat spooky moment.

G.

 

[Puck]

I for one, am very happy to hear some logical explanations for this apparition, I mean aberration. I want to hike Jefferson next season with my son. I hope to bring trail mix and not Scoobie snacks. Perhaps I will post the trip and go with a group...safety in numbers right?

 

[Sleeping Giant]

I believe the scientific method is the most refined way man has come up with to empirically prove or disprove hypotheses. I also believe most at-first-blush inexplicable phenomena have a rational explanation.

On the other hand, I also think that logic isn't necessarily the single, sole, "right" way to think about things. Rationality isn't, in my book, the only prism through which to view the world. That is, of course, conventional heresy. But so be it. Maybe I've read too much Carlos Castaneda. But I try to balance it out with a good dose of cosmology and string theory.

So much for discussing the mind. The body loves to be exercised as much if not more so. I'm planning on climbing Madison, Adams, and Jefferson two weeeks from today, and will be on the lookout for UFOs on Adams and green blobs on Jefferson. Madison has its own ghosts for me, and I expect I'll be communing with them too.

 

[chuck]

I was on Jefferson the last week in July and the ravens were making all kinds of crazy noises. I bet a raven further down out of muffled in heavy fog or wind would sound like a sinister laugh. Either way being alone on Jefferson in the fog and hearing a creepy laugh would make me want to get down quickly too.

 

[Eric Savage]

more strange laughter

I was coming down off of Peaked Mountain above North Conway after watching the July 4th fireworks when from behind us (thankfully? I wasn't alone) came a noise like a group of young girls giggling. I would have sworn that some camp group was following us down the mountain. The other guy told me it was coyotes. Any chance that coyotes would be hanging out on Jefferson's slopes?

 

[Lizzy]

secondhand story --- A couple of my friends were hiking near Dunbar Brook in the Berkshires. They took one trail to the top of a ridge, saw a clearing in the distance, and saw what appeared to be an abandoned camper. A couple of seconds later, two sketchy looking dudes with axes came out of the camper and started chopping down nearby trees. Mind you, there were no roads or houses within a couple of miles. Needless to say, my friends slowly and quietly backed up and went back they way the came.

 

[blacknblue]

Two friends of mine who are sisters went camping together in the wilderness a few summers ago. While in their tent, they swore they heard footsteps in the woods around them--not animals, but human footsteps. Of course they got freaked out, but the rationality in them 'knew' that it was just their imagination, so they forgot about it and slept through the night.
The newspaper the next day reported an escaped convict (murderer) who was last tracked going through that very area.

 

[cbcbd]

And for the "other" encounter, all I really have is a story (in saga form!) I wrote after many hikes to Desolation (shelter):

http://home.comcast.net/~mcritz/prose/songs/trail_tale.htm

This Summer I hiked the Pemi loop and towards the end of the day when I reentered the Wilderness Trail I looked down 50 ft and saw a tall big man wearing black and walking away. I reached into my pocket to grab my watch for a time check. Looked at the time, placed it back into my pocket, looked back up and the man was gone!
I walked up a little more thinking that he had stopped by the side of the trail by a log to rest. I was really surprised when I got there and there was no one around. That freaked me out a bit and even though some claimed that it was possibly the low blood sugar making me see things it didn't matter back then. The Wilderness trail is very freaky and endless... sucks your mind and sanity away.

 

[keb]

Fun thread to read, some great tales. I have less of a ghost tale and more of a question prompted a little bit more by the original post, geared more for the Catskill folks. Bearpen Mt is one of the 3500 mts and one of the only ones on private property. But, as I understand it, the 3500 club has worked with the owners to allow hikers access. That is great. So a couple of years ago a friend and I make the trek. The property is owned by a hunting club, and they maintain a hunting cabin on it. That is fine. So, it gets use, and you are expecting to see signs of civilization. All good. The property is posted with the standard generic "No Trespassing" signs with a line to fill in the ownership. Each one is filled with "BOHC" on the line. As we are hiking along we have nothing else to do but to wonder about the name of the ownership. Knowing it is a hunting club, the last two letters are fairly obvious. Then we approach the hunting cabin, where a sign all too readily (and disturbingly) answers all questions. The sign says "Ben Dover Hunting Club". Now this is disturbing and bizarre. It doesn't take Howard Stern to figure out that there is no Ben involved in the HC (if you're still having trouble understanding what I am getting at, say the name quickly all together). Plus, the No Trespassing signs were clearly marked as BOHC, not BDHC. Now a little homo-humor can be funny in a juvenile way, but why would anyone want to be associated with a hunting cabin, tucked away in the woods, with a name such as that? Lets just say, I was glad I wasn't alone, we did not linger around the cabin, and we were very glad not to run into any of the HC members.

Maybe Head has some insight into the story behind (no pun intended) the HC? Or someone else? Not that I'm anxious to go back, but this topic did resurrect my curiosity. Needless to say, that is as close to a true deliverance moment as I would like to get!

 

[Head]

Maybe Head has some insight into the story behind (no pun intended) the HC? Or someone else? Not that I'm anxious to go back, but this topic did resurrect my curiosity. Needless to say, that is as close to a true deliverance moment as I would like to get!

Actually, when we passed the camp, we joked and said, 'A Deliverance skit would be a pretty funny video', so that is what we based the video on! No idea what the story is behind the camp is...It was a weird little tar papered shack though, eh?

 

[jeanvabu]

Montana Moments

I was out for close to 2 weeks on the CD trail. Beautiful country I had never seen hiking like this before (or country like that either).

1) Coyotes are really really scary when you aren't familiar with where you are. It was a beautiful night. But those coyotes kept it up all evening.
2) That same night a herd of something really really big came running through our campsite. We were worried that we would be trampled. Never did see what it was.
3) The last night on this trip we debated about the bear bag hang. After an hour we finally got it done. The next morning the tree below our food bag was shredded and HUGE paw prints were beneth it.

In general I get really spoked hiking in the dark. I consistantly think of Blair Witch and any other movie that has scared me (most scary movies do ).

Jen

 

[Umsaskis]

This was many moons ago and we were young, which is maybe why it scared us so much, but....

When I was in college I went backpacking on the Susquehanock Trail System with a friend. She couldn't get out of the lab until evening, so we didn't get started until 10:00 at night in the pouring rain. We hiked about 2 miles with flashlights and then set up camp a fair ways off the trail. After sleeping for a couple of hours we were awakened by the sound of 2 people arguing vehemently and walking rapidly past our tent, without any lights, and on the opposite side of the tent from the trail. After they had passed, we asked each other if we had both heard it, to be certain it wasn't a dream. And we checked out the direction in the morning, and they had definitely not been on the trail, but they were moving mighty fast for being off trail at night in the pouring rain without any lights....it was a little creepy.

 

[GBKDalton]

Worst I've ever run into are drunk locals on ATV's.

A family friend was backpacking with the local outing club south of Mt. Abraham in VT twenty years ago. They reached thier intended campsite and found it already occupied by an extremely sketchy guy who he now thinks might have been on the run from the law or somthing. Everyone in the group decided to tent. The next morning, sketchy guy has two dead porcupines to eat for the rest of day-he'd clubbed them during the night. Those unfortunate to be tenting closer to the shelter heard him at it.