Gothics Cables

[Grumpy]

Out of curiosity . . .

It has been just about a year now (give or take some) since the famous cables were removed from the Range Trail route up Gothics from the Gothics-Saddleback col. The removal was for safety reasons as the cables were said to have deteriorated to usnafe condition.

A couple of questions.

First, it was said at the time that the NY DEC intended to replace the Gothics cables. Has this been done or scheduled?

Second, some of us (me included) have contended that aids like the cables on Gothics help confine traffic to a narrow corridor, which serves to prevent destruction of fragile vegetation and soils alongside the route. So the question is, has any noticeable widening of the corridor and damage to soils, etc. alongside occurred since the Gothics cables were removed?

G.

 

[percious]

I went up to gothics last november. What a mess. The alpine zone is definately suffering up there. I don't know if it is as much the cables fault, or people who just don't care. I handled all rock sections without trampling any vegetation, and without cables. I think people's lack of experience leads them to try the alpine vegetation route. This makes me sad. I feel safer on the rocks, because no dirt gets in my boot soles, causing slippage in later sections. If only everyone else did this...

-percious

 

[rhihn]

When we hiked that route, I recall not needing or wanting the cables at all on the way up, and the rock was quite grippy. Coming down I used them once or twice, mostly to keep me from going too fast. I also recall that the areas of vegetation were stressed before the cables were removed.

 

[Neil]

I went up 2 weeks ago and there were people using the ''herd path'' beside the bare rock. I don't know how much wider it is compared to before but it's inevitably going to widen quickly. I found the rock very smooth (compared to say, Colden slide's rock) due to the passage of many boots and wouldn't have minded grabbing hold of something in a couple of spots.

 

[Grumpy]

It was raining when I climbed Gothics on a September day 23 years ago (1981). As I recall, the cables made passage up that section a lot more secure. Without them it’s almost certain I would have been tugging at the krummholz and looking for surer footing alongside the trail.

The cable corridor was fairly narrow then, and comparing my 1981 photos with much more recent ones (taken while the cables still were in place) that I’ve seen indicates to me that it had not widened significantly in nearly two decades. That’s pretty good, given the great volume of traffic in the High Peaks.

Reports of a herd path (paths?) developing in the vegetated area alongside the cable route since the strands were removed should raise eyebrows. That does not bode well for the thin soil and plant life up there.

There is an old bit of doggerel (based in an actual historical incident, I gather) that seems to apply and goes like this:

“For want of a nail, the shoe was lost. For want of the shoe the horse was lost. For want of the horse the rider was lost. For want of the rider the battle was lost. For want of the battle the kingdom was lost. And all for the want of a nail.”

Lets hope the Gothics cables are replaced before another full season of hiker traffic takes to the surrounding bushes and further degrades that corridor.

G.

 

[1ADAM12]

The last time I had climbed Gothics was October of 99. The cables were very useful since there was a thin layer of ice on the rock surface. If I recall there were paths up through the Alpine Vegetation then and I saw a few hikers using it to avoid the slippery rock. I am sure the paths are a lot worse now since the cables were removed I am in hopes too that the State will acess the damages and get a move on replacing them

 

[TCD]

We climb Gothics at least once a year, usually more often, and we usually descend the "cable trail." I have noticed an unfortunate increase in the damage to the vegetation. Whether it's because of the cables, or because of more traffic, I can't say. About 5 years ago, I switched to trail runners from boots for all my Summer hiking. Since then, I have never felt like I've needed the cables. Trail runners confrom to the rock, and usually have somwhat stickier soles than boots, so it is easy to find footholds on the way down. On the other hand, I can see how the cables would be handy in ice or snow. NYS should replace these, and repair the high water bridge over John's Brook. Let's help people enjoy the woods safely!

 

[Holdstrong]

I climbed Gothics for the first time this season and descended the cable trail. It was a nice day and I couldnt really imagine "needing" those cables to either descend or ascend. though there were parts where they could have come in handy.

I dont doubt it can be a different story in bad weather... but personally, if I am unable to climb a mountain without trampling on the vegetation - because of the weather or a lack of ability or whatever - I simply don't climb that mountain. I would turn around if I had to.

And I'm curious. Outside of the standard "you are entering the alpine zone" signs that sit on most peaks.... there isn't much in the way of reminders or reinforcement for those inexperienced climbers or people just not in the know. Maybe another sign at thejunction to the summit trail letting people know that the trail ahead can get hairy, and if you find yourself using the vegetation to help you get to the top.... then you shouldnt be going to the top.

The "alpine zone" sign is pretty non-descript if you ask me. I can see an inexperienced person seeing that and not realizing it applies to ALL of the vegetation including the stuff on the side of the trail.

Who knows, maybe obvious and well placed signs and reminders like this wont work.... lord knows they dont seem to stop people from being careless with their food around bears.... but I have always noted and wondered about the lack of detailed and informative signs like this, especially given the obvious importance of the issue.

Oh and they'd cost a lot less than cables too

 

[Stan]

Holdstrong, you're a better person than most of us. I wouldn't turn around but I'd find a way, sign or no sign.

I wouldn't pass judgement on those who might trample the vegetation, either, as under certain circumstances I would be one. The fact that my threshold of when to trample and when to risk personal injury (imagine how trampling it would be to conduct an evacuation) may differ from someone else's threshold need not be an indictment of either.

This may seem like a naive question to those very familiar with Gothics but might there be alternates (other than trails from the other directions) to this summit from the Saddle col? I'm thinking specifically about a longer, less dramatic and less damaging route that might have been created when the trail was built. If so, this might be the bushwhack to the summit that would eventually become a trail ... but it would be cheaper to replace the cables.

 

[Warren]

The thread on the Gothics cables from last fall had at it's end or near to it information relayed second hand from a Ranger or other DEC official, that yes ultimately a re-route is the solution and may even be possibly, maybe planned.

Re-routing or planning a new trail in a wilderness area is no small matter of planning, work, paper work or expense.

The old thread is worth pursuing for that info as well as exposure to the incredible amount of opinions that hikers can have over an object such as a cable.

 

[JackM]

Just out of curiosity, what's the skiing like on the Gothics in the winter? Does it slide often? Is it unsafe?

 

[Pete_Hickey]

The thread on the Gothics cables from last fall had at it's end or near to it information relayed second hand from a Ranger or other DEC official, that yes ultimately a re-route is the solution and may even be possibly, maybe planned.

No, you're mis-remembering. A reasonable re-route is not possible. The cables are scheduled to be replaced somewhat soon. Most of the material is already in the Johns Brook area. The delay has been a scheduling/priority/manpower issue.

This is second hand information for you-all, but it is first hand for me.

I'll let y'all know when the date is set.

 

[Warren]

Pete, thanks for the correction, should have searched the original thread.

 

[Mark Driscoll]

Thanks Pete. It is great to have you on VFTT.

Mark

 

[Grumpy]

. . . A reasonable re-route is not possible. The cables are scheduled to be replaced somewhat soon. Most of the material is already in the Johns Brook area. The delay has been a scheduling/priority/manpower issue.

This is second hand information for you-all, but it is first hand for me.

I'll let y'all know when the date is set.

That's good news you've brought, Pete. Thanks. And thanks for promising the update.

Looking over the nearly year-old thread on this topic, I see that Peakbagr offered a six-pack bet against the cables ever being replaced. Is that offer still open?

Nah, I'm not a bettin' man. Fact is, when the cables are back in place I might even buy Peakbagr a beer, just to celebrate the fact that some common sense still gets applied to management of those wonderful Adirondack mountains.

G.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Looking over the nearly year-old thread on this topic, I see that Peakbagr offered a six-pack bet against the cables ever being replaced. Is that offer still open?

How about a beer for the guys hauling up close to 200 pounds of junk for the installation? I'll let you know where to send it. Ubu will do fine

If all goes well, the cables should be back within three weeks.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Just spoke with a Ranger this past weekend. The last of the cable spools was brought to John's Brook Lodge on 8/29. Over the next few weeks, they'll bring the spools up Gothics, and then begin installing. Each spool weighs 75lbs, and the Ranger didn't seem overly enthusiastic about hauling them up the mountain. If you're hoping for an expedited schedule, and looking for a little additional pain, you may want to volunteer your services as Sherpa.

 

[Mark]

Are the replacement cables different (lighter) than the ones removed? I hiked Gothics in 1999 and recall the cables being very thick and heavy. I don't think 75 pounds worth of the cable I remember would not amount to a very long length. After my hike, I asked around and was told that they flew the cables to the site by chopper. Is it not possible to do that again with the replacements?

 

[Pete_Hickey]

There are 3 spools of 40-50 pounds each. The cable is fed through rubber hoses to increase its thickness. Strength is not an issue.

They are being hauled by humans. (although some mayargue with that definition) Helicopter time is VERY expensive. Some of the humans only require a few beers as payment.

 

[Nadine]

Good beer I hope!

That Prelude is looking pretty good right now