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anita514
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roadtripper said:
well yeah, that's the point. the documentary is all about Timothy Treadwell, not the bears and scenery of Alaska...
Grizzly Man Documentary showing - starts 8/12/2005
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well yeah, that's the point. the documentary is all about Timothy Treadwell, not the bears and scenery of Alaska...
jjmcgo
New member
The director of a Siberian bear refuge (an actual scientist) was also killed that October or the next one by bears he knew and studied. Comes October, the berries are eaten, the salmon have migrated out and the fruit trees are bare. The bears have to eat something and those large vocal mammals they aren't sure about start to look edible, even if they might put up a fight.
Either that, or the bears let the humans fatten up over the summer before eating them. Now, that's truly animal husbandry!
Either that, or the bears let the humans fatten up over the summer before eating them. Now, that's truly animal husbandry!
una_dogger
Well-known member
Finally saw Grizzly Man today
I found the movie was more of a character study of Treadwell and Hertzog's admiration of Treadwell as a filmaker.
I felt the movie maintained a balanced neutrality with respect to Treadwell's methods.
I found it disturbing near the ending as Treadwell broke down and began F youing the Park Service and other's who work for habitat conservation exlaiming "I beat you".
Treadwell, to me, came off as a disgruntled actor and wanna be researcher who was ultimately using the bears to gain celebrity status and to elevate his own ego.
I don't see anything in his work that did anything to further conservation, but my opinion stems from what Hertzog has presented.
Ultimately, I felt he was projecting most of his emotional baggage on the wildlife around him and his view of the animals was more appropriate for house pets than it was for wild animals.
I found his techniques invasive.
I felt sorry for the girl who lost her life.
I would have liked to see more information on bears and bear:human interaction, but then, I knew that this movie was about Treadwell himself, and for me, the movie lacked substance.
The fact that he chose to return to the camp, late in the season, because he got ticked off at humanity; either was a suicide attempt or demonstrates just how little he understood about the bear's seasonal patterns. To re enter a camp, where all of the study bears had gone into hibernation and had been replaced by newcomers that he had no experience with, that too me, was either a huge act of stupidity or a death wish.
Just my 0.02
I found the movie was more of a character study of Treadwell and Hertzog's admiration of Treadwell as a filmaker.
I felt the movie maintained a balanced neutrality with respect to Treadwell's methods.
I found it disturbing near the ending as Treadwell broke down and began F youing the Park Service and other's who work for habitat conservation exlaiming "I beat you".
Treadwell, to me, came off as a disgruntled actor and wanna be researcher who was ultimately using the bears to gain celebrity status and to elevate his own ego.
I don't see anything in his work that did anything to further conservation, but my opinion stems from what Hertzog has presented.
Ultimately, I felt he was projecting most of his emotional baggage on the wildlife around him and his view of the animals was more appropriate for house pets than it was for wild animals.
I found his techniques invasive.
I felt sorry for the girl who lost her life.
I would have liked to see more information on bears and bear:human interaction, but then, I knew that this movie was about Treadwell himself, and for me, the movie lacked substance.
The fact that he chose to return to the camp, late in the season, because he got ticked off at humanity; either was a suicide attempt or demonstrates just how little he understood about the bear's seasonal patterns. To re enter a camp, where all of the study bears had gone into hibernation and had been replaced by newcomers that he had no experience with, that too me, was either a huge act of stupidity or a death wish.
Just my 0.02
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funkyfreddy
Well-known member
Wow! I just checked out the links, didn't know Werner Herzog directed it.... would love to see this film.
Would anyone care to get together this week and go see it in NYC?
Would anyone care to get together this week and go see it in NYC?
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king tut
New member
After reading all these posts, i guess i'm gonna have to go see the movie. I just went for a walk and saw that the movie is playing down the street from me, sep 9-15 at the bayview cinema, for anyone in the midcoast area.
pudgy_groundhog
Active member
Seeing the doc. this week. FYI, for anybody in the Poughkeepsie area, it's playing at Upstate Films in Rhinebeck.
una_dogger
Well-known member
pudgy_groundhog said:
Yup, that's where I caught it.
clg898
New member
I saw the movie over the weekend at Kendall Sqr. in Cambridge. As others have said, it's not about the bears. I think Herzog is asking much larger questions, larger even than Treadwell. He made a statement about Treadwell trying to escape society, "the same society that kicked Thoreau out of Walden." For me, this comment holds the key to the films meaning. It is meant to ask deep questions about our relationship with and to nature. Thoreau being kicked out of Walden, Adam and Eve being thrown out of Eden, Treadwell trying to escape society in the wilderness, Chris McCandless (Into the Wild) renouncing wealth and family and searching for something in the Alaskan wilds; I think each of these examples highlights the paradox of finding beauty, peace, and solace in nature's indifference and cruelty.
una_dogger
Well-known member
clg898 said:
Well put, Clg898. I thought Hertzog's use of the glacier that separated the base camp from the town of Kodiak was an excellent metaphor for the emotional divide within Treadwell, with respect to his perspective upon where he fit into the rest of human society.
You touched upon the harsh realities of nature, did you not find it perplexing that Treadwell was hurt by the harsh realities of predation? He was so overcome with anger at the sight of the dead fox; not seeing it as a part of the continuum of life and death and the foodweb but more as a act of hate. And this too me, was a stark contradiction in his nature, afterall, why was he not crying over all of the salmon that were preyed upon? Did he only care for the fluffy creatures?
This movie certainly was thought provoking!
clg898
New member
una_dogger said:You touched upon the harsh realities of nature, did you not find it perplexing that Treadwell was hurt by the harsh realities of predation? He was so overcome with anger at the sight of the dead fox; not seeing it as a part of the continuum of life and death and the foodweb but more as a act of hate. And this too me, was a stark contradiction in his nature, afterall, why was he not crying over all of the salmon that were preyed upon? Did he only care for the fluffy creatures?
This movie certainly was thought provoking!
You're right, there was an obvious conflict in Treadwell, and I think, to a larger extent in the way human's often perceive nature. There was his despair for the bears going hungry, but not for the salmon being eaten; for the fox being killed, but not for the flies hovering over the dead fox. In many ways Treadwell's view of the bears parallels our view of a benevolent Mother Earth which is at odds with the harsh realities of nature. I think Herzog highlights the conflict, between the beauty and goodness that we ascribe to nature and the indifferent and harsh realities of the natural world, or even the human world. Isn't it ironic that in trying to escape his troubles in a harsh, uncaring, human society Treadwell embraced the very violent, incompassionate, hierarchical society of the Grizzly Bear?
The film certainly has me thinking quite a bit about my own assumptions about nature and man/woman's place in it. It also makes me wonder why so many people when faced with difficulties in their own lives are able to find solace in nature. Personally, I know I find wilderness theraputic, but I'm not sure why... now even less so. Perhaps it is the complexity and contradiction of wilderness; beauty juxatopsed against tradgedy and indifference. It's powerful and there is some bond, yet there is also a sense seperation, of being a visitor. I think ultimately, the realization that he couldn't escape his "humaness" is what drove Treadwell to despair, and "death by bear." He realized that he couldn't stay, that he couldn't truly escape human society by entering the bear's world.
In any event, I found the film unsettling, challenging, and thought provoking. It makes me want to go back and read "Into the Wild" again. Maybe also to try to understand what drove Guy Waterman to commit suicide atop a peak in NH, and why Thoreau left Boston for the relative wilds of Walden Pond.
una_dogger
Well-known member
clg898 said:
OK, but just get your self back home safe and sound!
pudgy_groundhog
Active member
There was one part in the movie that showed Treadwell filming a group of men in boats on shore (not entirely sure if they were hunters or just out with cameras to see the bears?) and a grizzly approached them non-threateningly. The group threw rocks at the bear, which really ticked off Treadwell. But I was thinking, "well, you habituated the bear to people, but now your mad when it doesn't run away from the people?". Despite his good intentions, I felt like he just didn't "get it".Rik said:
una_dogger
Well-known member
pudgy_groundhog said:
Why he didn't have the foresight to assume that what he was doing was putting the bears at risk for a variety of reasons, including making them easier targets, is beyond me.
I've read about Treadwell here and there over the years and always felt he was doing the bears a diservice, seeing his footage in Hertzog's movie allowed me to make my opinion an informed one once and for all.
pudgy_groundhog
Active member
I totally agree. It seems as though the bears were either a therapy, an escape from reality, a means to create a name for himself, or something other than 'studying' and 'protecting' them. I don't think he meant ill will or harm to them, but he was selfish in his actions.una_dogger said:
I did think some of the footage was interesting, particularly when the bears were just going about their business when he was around. I also liked the foxes.
Btw, here's an interesting article about a grizzly encounter earlier this year (if you recall a couple being killed at their campsite in Alaska, it has to do with another party that found their campsite and encountered the bear):
LA Times Grizzly Article
funkyfreddy
Well-known member
I just saw this film, was disturbed by it and liked it a lot! By the way before I forget, here's the Grizzly People link:
http://www.grizzlypeople.com/home.php
I find it interesting that the first thing I read when clicking on the site was a column on bear safety, 1st item - "People should remain 100 yards from bears at all times". Hmmm.....I guess this is kind of "do as we say, not as we do" sort of advice, isn't it? If only Tim had followed it......
My opinion of Timothy Treadwell is very mixed...... there are a whole lot of adjectives I can think of - misguided, comic, courageous, visionary, irresponsible, foolish, self-involved, tragic, irritating, criminally negligent........ my list could go on and on. Still though.... the guy had a spark, didn't he? He was nuts but he had guts!
What amazes me is that he could live so close to nature yet still be overpowered by his own delusions/ideals that he projected on to the Alaskan wilderness in spite of the violence he witnessed among the bears and other species..... I feel real bad for his girlfriend, out there alone in the Alaskan wilderness with this crazy man and a bunch of bears...... she had a lot of courage as well and apparently died trying to save Timothy, hitting the bear over the head with a frying pan !?!?
In any case I think kudos go to Werner Herzog for a very well made documentary. A lot of Treadwell's bear footage was awesome as was Herzog's examination of him as a subject, warts and all. I'm going to pick up Treadwell's book soon and give it a read as well as another book that has been recently written about him. Thanks to everyone for recommending this film!
http://www.grizzlypeople.com/home.php
I find it interesting that the first thing I read when clicking on the site was a column on bear safety, 1st item - "People should remain 100 yards from bears at all times". Hmmm.....I guess this is kind of "do as we say, not as we do" sort of advice, isn't it? If only Tim had followed it......
My opinion of Timothy Treadwell is very mixed...... there are a whole lot of adjectives I can think of - misguided, comic, courageous, visionary, irresponsible, foolish, self-involved, tragic, irritating, criminally negligent........ my list could go on and on. Still though.... the guy had a spark, didn't he? He was nuts but he had guts!
What amazes me is that he could live so close to nature yet still be overpowered by his own delusions/ideals that he projected on to the Alaskan wilderness in spite of the violence he witnessed among the bears and other species..... I feel real bad for his girlfriend, out there alone in the Alaskan wilderness with this crazy man and a bunch of bears...... she had a lot of courage as well and apparently died trying to save Timothy, hitting the bear over the head with a frying pan !?!?
In any case I think kudos go to Werner Herzog for a very well made documentary. A lot of Treadwell's bear footage was awesome as was Herzog's examination of him as a subject, warts and all. I'm going to pick up Treadwell's book soon and give it a read as well as another book that has been recently written about him. Thanks to everyone for recommending this film!
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Maddy
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I am so glad I saw this film tonight. The Alaska/bear footage was beautiful and as much as I loved it I also found it very disturbing. It seems that TT had found his calling in life. Right or wrong, he truly believed that the bears were his "friends" and he would give his life to "protect" them. Without his bears he would have probably died of cirrhosis or an overdose. He had found a reason to live, as misguided as it might have been.
It was interesting to see that the bear which killed him was not one of the "regulars" at the grizzly maze. Timothy had commented that his regulars were gone off to hibernate and different bears had come down to the area. He seemed to perceive them in a more negative, possibly threatening way. Was he really pushing the envelope hanging out with that particular group?
Isn't it amazing that he lived in such close proximity to such dangerous animals and it took 13 yrs for one of them to do him in. I just can't stop thinking about this. Most people don't last thirteen minutes getting that close to grizzlies. I can't help but think that it wasn't just "fools luck" that they didn't harm him for all those years. It makes no sense whatesoever. EVen his camp was hidden. He didn't play by any of the rules and survived.
Either they bonded with him in some strange way or they just plain didn't know what to make of this character so they left him alone.
It was interesting to see that the bear which killed him was not one of the "regulars" at the grizzly maze. Timothy had commented that his regulars were gone off to hibernate and different bears had come down to the area. He seemed to perceive them in a more negative, possibly threatening way. Was he really pushing the envelope hanging out with that particular group?
Isn't it amazing that he lived in such close proximity to such dangerous animals and it took 13 yrs for one of them to do him in. I just can't stop thinking about this. Most people don't last thirteen minutes getting that close to grizzlies. I can't help but think that it wasn't just "fools luck" that they didn't harm him for all those years. It makes no sense whatesoever. EVen his camp was hidden. He didn't play by any of the rules and survived.
Either they bonded with him in some strange way or they just plain didn't know what to make of this character so they left him alone.
Jay H
New member
For those that might have missed this in theaters.. I PVR'ed an episode on The History Channel on the sinking of the U.S.S. Indianapolis (A Heavy Cruiser) during the last days of WWII and one of the commercials was saying that "Grizzly Man" is coming soon to the Discovery Channel. Didn't mention a date, I didn't see anything on the Discovery Channel's website about dates for their broadcast. I assume it would be on the Discovery Channel but it might be on one of the same lines TLC, History, Discovery, etc....
Just a heads up..
Found this at Discovery.com
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/grizzlyman/about/about.html
It mentions to air on the Discovery Channel at a later date that isn't mentioned... I'll keep an eye out for this...
Jay
Just a heads up..
Found this at Discovery.com
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/grizzlyman/about/about.html
It mentions to air on the Discovery Channel at a later date that isn't mentioned... I'll keep an eye out for this...
Jay
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Jay H
New member
Lion's Gate Films forum mentions that the DVD is set to be released on Dec 26th, which means it will probably be available for rental soon after...
No word on when the airing will be on the Discovery channel!
Jay
No word on when the airing will be on the Discovery channel!
Jay
sardog1
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Jay H,
Thanks for the updates. Guess I'll have to succumb and watch it when it is available.
The idea of watching this film has been a source of inner conflict for me since it was released. OTOH, it's AK + bears, which is all good for me, but OTOH, it's TT, who raises my blood pressure even long after his passing. Nick Jans, who saw the good as well as the bad in him, is a better person than I am, I suppose. Thank God for the "Mute" button, so I don't have to listen to TT talking if I choose not to .....
Thanks for the updates. Guess I'll have to succumb and watch it when it is available.
The idea of watching this film has been a source of inner conflict for me since it was released. OTOH, it's AK + bears, which is all good for me, but OTOH, it's TT, who raises my blood pressure even long after his passing. Nick Jans, who saw the good as well as the bad in him, is a better person than I am, I suppose. Thank God for the "Mute" button, so I don't have to listen to TT talking if I choose not to .....
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