Hammocks AND Pads

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tonycc

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In the never ending struggle to go lighter, I'm about to get my first hammock and a new pad. I've seen the recent threads on these two items individually, but I'm wondering about the combination. Do hammock users also use a pad? If so, what type?

Thanks!
Tony
 
No pads with a hammock

Since a hammock keeps you off the ground, there are no rocks, roots or hard spots that require a hammock. Hammocks are (generally) used in temporate weather, so a pad isn't needed for thermal insulation.

I don't see the need for a pad in you are sleeping in a hammock.
 
disagree...

I always bring a pad with me on backcountry overnights (for safety), and definitely use it in a hammock. When using a hammock, I prefer a ridgerest closed cell foam pad because it is super light and completely effective. The pad will keep you warm especially when it is windy, and also insulates your body from the sometimes uncomfortable hammock strings (if you use that kind of hammock) and protects your sleeping bag from the moisture of the dew that appears on the hammock itself in the morning. In general, the padding from the ridgerest just keeps me more comfy, even though I am already off the ground.
 
tonycc said:
In the never ending struggle to go lighter, I'm about to get my first hammock and a new pad. I've seen the recent threads on these two items individually, but I'm wondering about the combination. Do hammock users also use a pad? If so, what type?

Thanks!
Tony
I've been using a hammock for two years now. I was a skeptical convert, but now it's my normal 3 season mode to use a Hennessey hammock (winter still belongs to a tent or snow shelter). I mostly bushwhack off trail and therefore almost never stay at an established campsite, but I can find a suitable sleeping site over uneven ground, rocks, blowdown, steep slopes, or even in a spruce swamp far easier than I can for a tent. All I need is a couple of trees about 10 feet apart. What is underneath is irrelevant.

You do most definitely need an insulating bottom pad in all but the warmest of summer weather. I have used the hammock in 20 degree F nighttime temps of recent weeks with no problem. Since your bottomside is exposed to the wind all night long you will get cold even in summer if you use no insulation at all. There are plenty of opinions, but I have gone to using a Big Agnes type of sleeping bag that has no bottom insulation and is little more than a top quilt with a fitted pocket sewn on the bottom. Your pad of choice slips into the pocket - I use a thermarest. The pocket or another anchoring scheme is necessary because it is almost impossible to stay on top of a loose pad in a hammock. Another problem is that because of the bottom side to side curvature, your shoulders are likely to drift onto uninsulated side fabric and you will notice the cold coming through. You'll find various schemes to prevent this including small extra "wing" pads, but I just use loose clothing with good success.
Check out Sgt Rock's hammock page on http://hikinghq.net/hammock/hammock.html
 
Thanks Nessmuk, I was wondering what the big deal was about pad wings. I'm looking at the Speer hammock kit, and he sells wing kits.

The Sgt. Rock site has a lot of good information.

Tony
 
tonycc said:
I was wondering what the big deal was about pad wings. I'm looking at the Speer hammock kit, and he sells wing kits.

The other reason for a wider pad/wings is that a hammock wraps up around you and will compress your sleeping bag, so you need a wider pad even if you don't slide off of it.

I have a Speer hammock and prefer it to the better-known Hennessey.

Did a yard-test at 20F--definitely needed a pad and any place where the hammock compressed my bag beyond the edge of the pad was very obvious (cold).

Doug
 
Remix said:
Sgt Rocks Web site made my spyware detector go off, so I closed it off.
hmmm, don't know about the spyware thing on Sgt Rock's page, but with a Mac computer that is not (so far) an issue anyway. Sgt Rock is a real person with military type experience who you can email and he responds directly with answers to your questions. There is a huge amount of useful information on his webpage. Maybe some if it looks like spyware to your detector. I'd be surprised if he knowingly had anything like that there.
 
There is a sidebar of some sort, "Advanced Popup Side Menu" that wants to install something. I get a warning from my spam/virus killer about this, and I don't let it install. The site runs fine without it as far as I can tell.

Tony
 
Pads & Hammoks

I use a Hennessey Ham. and use a ridgerest for insulation. Ive used my hammy down to about 17-20 degrees was very glad i had the sleeping pad.Try and get the widest pad you can to avoid cold shoulders.
 
I just checked out a couple of hammock sites. Do I have this straight? I would need:
Hammock
Tarp
Bug Net
Pad
Sleeve for pad
Wings for wideneing pad
Ropes
Stakes for tarp

If weight and cost was the primary considerations, and I'm sure they're not after reading the websites, then 2 people might be better off with a tarp tent.
 
Ever since I got my Henessey Hammock I dont need to carry a pad and since it weighs just 1.5 pounds or so I take it along even if I'm not overnighting.
Anyway, I solved the pad issue by buying some foil padded roofing insulation at the local hardware store. It comes in long rolls, costs nearly nothing and weight it so low you couldn't measure it if you wanted to. Just cut to size and fold. If it gets worn out just roll out some more! The stuff is also great as a picnic blanket/chair and as an emergency dragging sled in winter.
 
Neil said:
I just checked out a couple of hammock sites. Do I have this straight? I would need:
Hammock
Tarp
Bug Net
Pad
Sleeve for pad
Wings for wideneing pad
Ropes
Stakes for tarp

If weight and cost was the primary considerations, and I'm sure they're not after reading the websites, then 2 people might be better off with a tarp tent.
Two people under a tarp may be a way to go with all the gear you mention, but hammocking is not all that different from tenting solo. Total weight of a typical hammock hanging, excluding sleeping bag and pad, ranges from 1 lb 15 oz up to a pound or so more depending on design. Maybe even a little lighter than a good two wall solo tent at that weight. At a little over $150 the price is also comparable.

Speaking in terms of the Hennessey design, the bug net is integral to the design, just like with a tent. You don't bring an extra one.

Rope? The integral hammock support line is a very thin but strong nylon cord, not rope. Total weight of support line less than that of tent poles. The side and fly tie-out lines are not required to support any substantial weight and are extremely lightweight cord.

The rain fly is also more or less integral with the hammock, comparable to a tent fly. It has the added advantage of being able to be tied low and tight for bad weather, or high and open to enjoy the view.

I get by just fine without extra "wings" by placing clothing, jacket or whatever by my sides. Not really needed in warm summer temps. A fleece jacket and my shirt and pants worked last month in 20 degree temps and I slept warm. I am of normal build, but broader shouldered guys may need to pad a bit more.

For stakes more often than not I find there happens to be a convient tree or shrub to tie out the sides of the fly, no stakes needed. It is not difficult to find an appropriate stick to slide into the ground as a stake, or you can bring lightweight stakes just like for a tent.

Rethink sleeping bags independent of whether you tent or hammock... the insulation you lay on with a traditional bag is compressed and useless, so why carry it? Bottom insulation is provided by your sleeping pad that you would normally carry anyway. With the Big Agnes and other's approach, you save the weight by only having the top half of the sleeping bag insulated. The bottom half can either have a full pocket (two layers of nylon with edges sewn together, open at one end) or in some models like mine it is just 3 simple narrow fabric cross pieces - enough to hold a pad in place, total weight about an ounce. Again, I was warm at 20 degrees, dressed warmly but with only a thermarest for bottom insulation.

I went kicking and screaming into the hammock mode. When I tried a friend's and saw the advantages for my primitive mode of camping it just made sense. There are big gains to be made in my case at least. No more do I search to find a reasonably flat dry spot for my solo tent. I have hammocked on steep slopes, over rocks, witchhobble, undulating hummocks, blowdown, and soggy wet ground. When it rains I don't worry about water drainage flowing under me and into my tent. All I need are a couple of trees about 10 feet apart, and I have never had a problem finding those.

There's another advantage that at first glance seems unlikely. Unlike an old style backyard hammock, you don't sleep in a U shape in an assymetric cut camping hammock. You lay on a diagonal and your body is quite flat with comforable support. I sleep on my side as I normally do, and I have heard of others sleeping on their stomach. The support is great and I never find a twig or rock under my hip.

I don't sell them, I just sleep in them.
 
Dave said:
Ever since I got my Henessey Hammock I dont need to carry a pad and since it weighs just 1.5 pounds or so I take it along even if I'm not overnighting.
Dave, does that include the rain tarp and bug netting?
 
Neil,

My approach is to use my standard in-a-tent gear as much as is possible:

* Hammock
yes (otherwise there would be no point in this post :) )

* Tarp
Builtin for Hennessy (but you may need a separate tarp for cooking in the rain), separate for Speer (8ft x 10ft, you can use it as a general tarp shelter)

* Bug Net
Builtin for both (removable for Speer)

* Pad
yes, depends on temperature

* Sleeve for pad
no or part of sleeping bag

* Wings for widening pad
or a wider pad, or some additional foam pad

* Ropes
yes, for tarp, lightweight

* Stakes for tarp
yes, or tie to whatever is available

I personally prefer the Speer design. If raining, you can set up the tarp first and do the rest under it. You can remove the netting (velcros to the sides of the hammock) and throw stuff on top while organizing your junk. And you can organize your pad(s) and sleeping bag on top of the hammock and get in from the top.

The Hennessy is a single pre-built unit--entry is through a velcroed slit that ends up on the centerline under your legs. Cannot remove the netting, no place to put stuff, and you have to organize your pad(s) and bag while half in and half out of the hammock entry. Then when you get in, you have to adjust your pad and sleeping bag while your weight is on them.

Obviously, each design has its advocates--the above is just my opinion.
(And yes, I have at least backyard tested both with pad and sleeping bag.)

Both have websites describing their hammocks. Speer has a how-make-one book if you want the details.
Speer: http://www.speerhammocks.com/
Hennessy: http://www.hennessyhammock.com/

Doug
 
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I'm looking at the Speer 8.0 A Hammock kit, it is on my birthday list. The claimed weight for everything (except the stakes) is 2.0 pounds. The thing that sold me on the Speer is the independent sil-nylon rain fly. During non-bug season I love sleeping under just a plain fly. Thus, I have an even lighter option by leaving the hammock and bug net home when I know I will be in places with level ground.

I was seriously looking at a tarp tent, but the condensation problems make it hard to stay dry. Not to mention, when it is raining you have no place to retreat but laying in the tent. The speer hammock gives you the option of having a fly to hang out under (no pun intended) and even a dry place to cook. Hammocks can also be sat in, or so I'm told.

For a pad, I'm looking at the Big Agness full length insulated. Since I need some sort of support for the Golite pack anyways, I'm planning on cutting up a blue pad to make the wings. Two of these on each side of the pack will hopefully make the back nice and comfortable with the Bearvault in there.
Not to mention, these cut up blue foam strips make nice seats for along the trail.

I'm a side sleeper and I toss and turn a lot, so I don't know if this will work for me. For the potential advantages it looks like it is worth a shot. My pack, shelter, sleeping bag and pad will weigh less than seven pounds. If it doesn't work then a tarp tent is plan B with a comparable weight.

It is going to be a fun summer. :cool:

Tony
 
Neil,
I have the ULTRALITE BACKPACKER A-SYM 1lb.15oz bought at MEC for $189can. Folded it's about the size of a football.
It includes the fly, bug net and any needed ropes. Other models might differ.
I bought two titanium stakes for it but they are very optional.
eBay has some good deals on this once in a while.
 
The Speer does not look as comfortable as the Hennessy. I think the A-Sym concept is key since it lets you get into a flatter position. Just my 2 cents.
 
Dave said:
The Speer does not look as comfortable as the Hennessy. I think the A-Sym concept is key since it lets you get into a flatter position. Just my 2 cents.
Actually, I found the Speer to be more comfortable--the entry velcro formed a hard lump against the side of my knee when used without a pad (something you only notice after lying in it for a while). The two designs were otherwise equally comfortable.

In both cases, you lie at a slight diagonal so your feet are on one side of the centerline and your head is on the other. The A-Sym simply chooses one of the two directions of the diagonal and removes the fabric that allows the other. The Speer allows one to choose the direction of the angle or change over if one becomes uncomfortable.

The basic design of both is based upon the Brazilian hammock.

IMO, the main differences are versatility, ease of setup, and ease of entry/egress. See my earlier post this thread.

Doug
 
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