Hawaiian air does not take stoves!

[blacklab2020]

FYI

I Had two MSR stoves confiscated after 3 flights with Hawaiian air before checking into the 4th flight.

They claim their planes are passenger planes and not cargo and that the used stoves have residue that is unacceptable for travel. (New stoves are also unacceptable).

This wasn't made obvious (noise and sirens) but is probably indicated in writing when booking flights online.

Based on this I am apprehensive about bringing the kitchen sink next time.

 

[Puma concolor]

That sucks. I guess I was lucky last month. I did two flights with them with an old MSR stove (type that screws onto a butane cannister) and was fine both times. Of course, I didn't have the butane ... think I would have been a little miffed if they had taken the stove.

 

[DougPaul]

I Had two MSR stoves confiscated after 3 flights with Hawaiian air before checking into the 4th flight.

Fuel type?


It is my understanding that airlines are much more picky about liquid fuel stoves (eg gasoline, kerosene, alcohol) than gaseous fuel stoves (butane, propane) minus the fuel canisters. The airlines sometimes go beyond the federal regs (which, IIRC, allow stoves with no trace of fuel--eg new or obsessively cleaned) and may confiscate anything that looks like a stove to them. (But, of course you can still carry a butane lighter with fuel and they probably have fuel for alcohol stoves in the galley...)

Back before there were limits on the amount of liquid that one could carry, people would sometimes put drinking water or juice in a Sigg/MSR bottle and claim it was a water or juice bottle and take a drink from it to prove their point. And they were still sometimes confiscated.

The safest approach seems to be to ship your stove or buy a new one at the destination and throw it away, give it away, or ship it home at the end of the trip. (Cue the threads on alcohol stoves made from small cans or soda cans...)

Doug

 

[blacklab2020]

Their regulations said ALL camping stoves. This did not make any indication as to liquid or gaseous fuel. I had a butane and a white gas stove with me, since I wasnt sure of what type of fuels I would come across on Kauai.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Their regulations said ALL camping stoves. This did not make any indication as to liquid or gaseous fuel. I had a butane and a white gas stove with me, since I wasnt sure of what type of fuels I would come across on Kauai.

They frequently do things like this so that the person at the desk does not have to make a judgment call. Can they be expected to know the difference between liquid/gas stoves? Can they tell if a stove is new? Can they tell if it has been cleaned well enough?

It is much easier to not take a chance and ban everything. After all, it only effects hikers.

 

[DSettahr]

Not trying to derail the thread; I think this image is relevant here:

From xkcd.

I would pretty much always assume that anything stove/fuel related is going to cause trouble if found, and mail it in advance to a post office for pickup at the destination.

 

[blacklab2020]

Another ridiculous aspect of this story is that after they showed me the documentation, they wouldnt return the stove to me so I could take it out and mail it.

The desk attendent told me the post office wont accept them and that they sent people there before. They even confiscated the windscreens to the stoves... As I reached to take them back so the airline wouldnt send it off to be auctioned they were grabbing the stuff as fast as i was like it didnt belong to me anymore... I would rather trash the stove then have them make money off my loss... but be its a contradiction since i dont want to waste things. At least I could have donated it to the local american tourism/hiking industry there...

 

[J.Dub]

Just curious, was this in your checked baggage or carry-on?

Thx,

K2RE

 

[TCD]

They have zero grounds to confiscate your property. None of those items is illegal to possess. The airlines legal authority covers what you can or cannot bring onto their planes, and that's where it ends. Consider small claims court to get your property back or get compensated...

 

[blacklab2020]

This was in checked luggage.

Small claims court is an idea. It can be done over the phone. However, I did not collect the name of the individual checking me in. I am sure I can find that out however. Then its a matter of how to proceed. One fault on my side is that given the time frame I could have demanded that they give me the stove back. I didn't. With my limited time I was more inclined to listen to them that the post office did not accept these (and really there was no other option)

With all the frustration it caused and lack of record keeping and thinking the process through with regards to small claims, I dont know that its really worth my time to make sure the papers are served properly and handed to the right person with a complete signature.

I went through this process a few months ago with a small company in San Diego and I was better prepared for that situation.

 

[Puma concolor]

I've been thinking about this and here's the way I think it went down when I checked in with Hawaiian Air in Kona with my stove-containing large backpack. I can't be sure but I believe the nice girl asked me if I had a stove in my backpack. I assumed she was referring to a cannister or something containing a liquid or a gas and answered emphatically "no" knowing that I had no butane with me. Probably a good misunderstanding or I'd be in the same boat as the OP since I have no ability to lie convincingly. But Hawaiian Air never checked my bag. Instead, they had me pick up my bags and head over to Agriculture (first) and TSA Inspection (second). Since TSA doesn't do bidding for Hawaiian Airlines, they presumably wouldn't give two hoots about a stove with no cannister since it's not on their list of banned items. So even if they'd seen it in the X-Ray or manual inspection, they wouldn't have touched it.

Nothing against Hawaiian Airlines. It's a lovely operation and their baggage fees are reasonable (free first bag, $17 for the second bag). If I had known they didn't want a gas-free stove that is the basic equivalent of a hunk of metal, I would have left it at home and bought a pocket rocket at my next location.

 

[blacklab2020]

I've been thinking about this and here's the way I think it went down when I checked in with Hawaiian Air in Kona with my stove-containing large backpack. I can't be sure but I believe the nice girl asked me if I had a stove in my backpack. I assumed she was referring a cannister or something containing a liquid or a gas and answered emphatically "no" knowing that I had no butane with me...

Nothing against Hawaiian Airlines. It's a lovely operation and their baggage fees are reasonable (free first bag, $17 for the second bag). If I known they didn't want a gas-free stove that is the basic equivalent of a hunk of metal, I would have left it at home and bought a pocket rocket at my next location.

Same thing happened with me except I said yes.

This was just an FYI at first, that turned into an oppourtunity to vent a little.
So it should be Nothing against Hawaiian airlines, because I should have read all the fine print to begin with.

 

[cbcbd]

Real bummer about the stove, but I think it is not just Hawaiian. A quick look and Jetblue also has the same restriction although they mention it has to be used:

http://help.jetblue.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/webisapi.dll?New,Kb=askBlue,case=obj(632)

 

[DougPaul]

When I flew out of Phoenix AZ, they had a glass case displaying the variety of stoves they had confiscated. There were some nice collector's items in there...

Don't remember which airline, but I got the impression that they delighted in taking stoves away from people. (This was before 9/11.)

Doug

 

[RoySwkr]

I've never been to an airport where they search checked luggage while you watch, you hand it in at the counter and don't find out if it's been checked until you get it back and the seal is gone. I've flown with a propane stove and the bag it's in is often opened, I learned to put it on top so they wouldn't have to rummage through. And I thought it was TSA that searched, not the airline.

Many moons ago my former brother-in-law was told he couldn't bring his gas stove home from Alaska, so he went away and disassembled it into pieces that wouldn't look like a stove and split them among various bags. And all parts went into suitcases not backpack, so when asked if he had a stove in backpack he could honestly say no.

 

[Puma concolor]

I've never been to an airport where they search checked luggage while you watch, you hand it in at the counter and don't find out if it's been checked until you get it back and the seal is gone. I've flown with a propane stove and the bag it's in is often opened, I learned to put it on top so they wouldn't have to rummage through. And I thought it was TSA that searched, not the airline.

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying in my last post. TSA does the inspection so if the airline wants to ban things above and beyond what TSA bans, they would have to be responsible for making sure those things don't get on. That's probably why Hawaiian Air actually asks specifically about stoves, hoping for honest replies. They didn't ask about other things that are clearly banned because they know that's TSA's gig.

The whole thing is kind of silly, IMO, because on my flight to the Big Island, I transferred from an NWA flight to a Hawaiian flight and the bag simply went from one plane to another. No additional inspection or questioning. This must happen all the time. And FWIW, most modern day stoves aren't really anything more than glorified flow valves. Would anyone seriously consider a Pocket Rocket sans gas to be a "stove." I guess it all depends on what your definition of "is" is.

 

[cbcbd]

The Hawaiian FAQ section question about permitted items links directly to the TSA site, where the section on Camping items states:

"Camp Stoves - These can travel as carry-on or checked luggage only if they are empty of all fuel and cleaned so that there are no vapors or residue left. Simply emptying the fuel container will leave flammable vapors. We recommend that you ship the fuel containers to your destination ahead of time - passengers frequently have to leave them at the checkpoint because of fuel vapors."

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1187.shtm

So according to this it should be ok take any stove in as carry-on, as long as it has no fuel residue, although I have no idea how they would go about checking for residue other than trying to light the stove. If your stoves did not have fuel residue then what they did is crap.

 

[dug]

I have posted our experience with stoves on our trip to Alaska two years ago. But, I will mention it again since it the seemingly ambiguity to the rules may be pertinent.

8 of us flew from 6 differerent directions to Fairbanks. There were a total of 4 stoves. Two went through, in their packed luggage, without issue. One person, leaving from Binghampton, NY, was queried if they had a stove. He replied yes, and when the counter person began to say he couldn't take it the pilot happened to walk by. She asked him what he thought, he said as long as there was no fuel, it's fine. This was, I believe, United.

Myself and my teammate left on United from Manchester, NH. We put our packs into duffle bags, and encased in the duffle bags we left a few other items that we needed, but weren't in the pack (i.e. poles, boots, etc.). I also pulled by stove out, put it in an orange padded package, labelled it "white gas stove", and stuffed it in my duffle. I figured if something did get sniffed out, it would be easy to get to instead of ripping through 6 nights of camping gear. They'd see the label, verify it was OK (according to TSA standards) and send it on it's way.

At the counter, both my partner and I were asked, as an afterthought, if we had a stove. He answered 'no' (he didn't have one), and I answered 'yes'. Clue #1: LIE. She didn't check his pack, just sent it on it's way. I pulled my out and showed her. She asked if it was brand new, I said 'no, but it's completely void of all fuel'. She said I can't take it. She never opened the package to verify. Clue #2: LIE AGAIN.

She wouldn't let it on the plane. I brought the stove back out to our car in the parking lot. We had no keys, since someone was going to pick it up with the spare set. So, I put this bright orange potentially explosive device next to our front tire, and sent ourselves across the country.

Now, the others who were queried about their stoves just answered 'no' and got through without an issue.

When we got to Fairbanks, I asked a couple of TSA folks about what happened, and he said it's up to the individual airlines to make their own rules, but we should've been OK according to them.

 

[DougPaul]

So according to this it should be ok take any stove in as carry-on, as long as it has no fuel residue, although I have no idea how they would go about checking for residue other than trying to light the stove.

Smell, most likely (unless their explosive vapor detector can detect fuel odors).

* Coleman fuel:
Sun-baking a stove should do the trick, although it might take a while. A fuel bottle can be washed with soap and water, dried and sun-baked. (Mild heat could substitute for sun baking.) Stoves with built-in fuel tanks might be particularly difficult to clean.
* Alcohol:
Should evaporate quickly on its own.
* Kerosene:
Probably no hope of clearing the smell (but I've never tried it).
* Butane/propane:
Should dissipate on its own.

But I'll bet that many airlines simply figure that it is simpler, saves personnel time, and minimizes line delays if they simply ban them outright. For instance, new stoves have been confiscated...


BTW, I believe there are some special regulations in Alaska--for instance, I believe a bush plane can carry stove fuel (but perhaps it has to be carried outside the body of the aircraft). I'm going on hazy memory here and don't have time right now to verify the details, so look it up yourself if you want a reliable version.

Doug

 

[dug]

BTW, I believe there are some special regulations in Alaska--for instance, I believe a bush plane can carry stove fuel (but perhaps it has to be carried outside the body of the aircraft). I'm going on hazy memory here and don't have time right now to verify the details, so look it up yourself if you want a reliable version.

Doug

Brooks Range Aviation sold us the fuel right at their hanger, since getting to Bettles, AK we had to take commercial aircraft and couldn't carry any. We loaded up, and they allowed it in our packs before we went in the air.