Instrumentless Navigation

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mavs00 said:
Ditto. Actually, that's not true. Here in western, NY, we have a local woodland park that is about 4000+ acres that is bounded on 4 sides by roads and whose terrain is widely varied due to glacial activity (i.e. steep eskers, drumlings, ect), that I regularly bushwhack without any navigational aides in both winter and summer). It's primarily open hardwood forests and most parts of it I know like the back of my hand. I actually will occasionally TRY to get lost as I use this area to hone my OBSERVATIONAL NAVIGATION (ObNav) skills. I've found it very helpful.
Tim, I am thinking Mendon, which, if this is what you are referring, I agree, Mendon is an awesome park for wandering around to try to figure out where you are. The roads on each side limit the number of hours (days?? :D ) you can be "lost" and the Eskers really limit your visual references (and horizon). After years of wandering other county/city Parks, it remains my top park in terms of diversity, landscape features and beauty.
 
grasshopper said:
to quote double bow" the compass doesn't lie. Knowing how to use your compass and trusting it are crucial skills for backwoods "true unless you teach a navigation class and then throw your old trusted compass into a bag with a strong magnet.In that case the compass did lie.
Well, not really, though I know what you mean. The compass did not lie, it did exactly what it was designed and programmed to do. It's just that it got reprogrammed and flipped its poles by human mishandling. Compasses do one thing, they point their needles to opposite magnetic poles. We humans trust our gear is perfect, that the polarity stays constant and the compass has not been altered by abuse or accident. We also trust that the only magnetic field in our presence is earth's overall geomagnetism. I can no more say an abused or mishandled "compass lied" than I can say "my car conspired against me" if it broke down and left me stranded after I abused or did not properly maintain it. I'm not sure why I would keep a strong magnet with my compass, but as with any piece of gear, a pretrip or trailhead quick check "preflight inspection" of gear would show if the compass was working as expected.

A second way a compass can misrepresent the information we think it is giving us is if there are large ferrous metal deposits nearby, which may include being a few feet away from a car or truck. There are of course documented regions of naturally occuring local magetic anomalies, and I have been subject to these myself. But I think more often than not when someone says "the compass was wrong, must be iron deposits", the real reason is they just screwed up and don't want to admit it.

Another less permanent error is due to our own inattentiveness. More than once I have had the azumuth dial set on my compass, and when traversing thick blowdown it got randomly turned to a different heading. The first couple of times that happened it took me a while to figure out what the error was and why the terrain I was heading into did not match my expectations.

Which all brings up what I always preach... nature provides many clues to help us navigate. Rarely do you have to rely on just one by itself for very long, including a compass. Put all the clues together, require that all you observe makes sense, do not ignore things that don't make sense. It is easy to misread the compass by 180 degrees, even when it is performing as expected. If the sun is out, for example as Grasshopper noted, then making a 180 degree error should be absolutely impossible if you are awake and paying attention to the available clues.
 
Nessmuk said:
Well, not really, though I know what you mean. The compass did not lie, it did exactly what it was designed and programmed to do. It's just that it got reprogrammed and flipped its poles by human mishandling. Compasses do one thing, they point their needles to opposite magnetic poles. We humans trust our gear is perfect, that the polarity stays constant and the compass has not been altered by abuse or accident. We also trust that the only magnetic field in our presence is earth's overall geomagnetism. I can no more say an abused or mishandled "compass lied" than I can say "my car conspired against me" if it broke down and left me stranded after I abused or did not properly maintain it. I'm not sure why I would keep a strong magnet with my compass, but as with any piece of gear, a pretrip or trailhead quick check "preflight inspection" of gear would show if the compass was working as expected.
I have read a report which claimed that a compass had been reprogrammed by the magnetic field from an NY subway car motor. In other words, it might be reprogrammed when you least expect it...

A simple check would be to check the direction of the sun againt the hands of your watch method of finding south.

A second way a compass can misrepresent the information we think it is giving us is if there are large ferrous metal deposits nearby, which may include being a few feet away from a car or truck. There are of course documented regions of naturally occuring local magetic anomalies, and I have been subject to these myself. But I think more often than not when someone says "the compass was wrong, must be iron deposits", the real reason is they just screwed up and don't want to admit it.
One might also be inadvertently carrying a magnet: eg a magnetized knife blade, saw, etc.

Doug
 
DougPaul said:
I have read a report which claimed that a compass had been reprogrammed by the magnetic field from an NY subway car motor.

One might also be inadvertently carrying a magnet: eg a magnetized knife blade, saw, etc.
Doug
Might be, but doing so is another one of those being responsible awareness items... don't blame the compass for being wrong if you have a big saw blade sticking out of your pack. It is not likely that a knife would be magnetized highly enough to have much effect on polarity flip, or with compass reading if it is in a remote pocket when using the compass properly held out away from your body. To be safe just don't keep them in the same pocket. I would expect subway motors to have huge magnetic fields and may well easily flip a compass's polarity. I don't keep one of those in my pocket either.:D

When I teach compass use to would-be guides I clearly point out the importance to keep it away from belt buckles, watches, rings, various objects that might be in pockets. A GPS in an upper pocket can have a huge effect also. One time a girl was holding her compass well away from her body and did not seem to be wearing any large pieces of metal or electronics, yet her compass was not reading correctly. Then I realized she was holding the lanyard of the compass in her hand, and wadded up with that was a small metal split ring she used to attach the lanyard to the compass. She was holding it right under the compass, significantly affecting the magnetic field.
 
dms said:
we had the map laid out on the hood of my truck trying to plot our direction, the compass was acting very strangely!

SherpaKroto said:
(or in Arm's case: while leaning on a car )

On numerous occasions I have layed out my map and compass on the tailgate of the truck or on the hood of the car I have seen the compass drift. As soon as I move it away from the vehicle it locks on to magnetic north. :confused:
 
Rick said:
Tim, I am thinking Mendon, which, if this is what you are referring, I agree, Mendon is an awesome park for wandering around to try to figure out where you are. The roads on each side limit the number of hours (days?? :D ) you can be "lost" and the Eskers really limit your visual references (and horizon). After years of wandering other county/city Parks, it remains my top park in terms of diversity, landscape features and beauty.

Mendon Ponds is it. It's awesome. I've literally spent hundreds of hours in there so "getting lost" is getting tougher and tougher, but still it's an awesome playground. in addition to great bushwhacking opportunities, it a great fitness area (winter and summer). Multiple trail running/sking routes along with Steep walled (but short) eskers that going up and down gives one a pretty good mountain workout (in a albeit shorter distance).

Great stuff and anyone traveling or living in western NY, should check it out/

/ back to the topic at hand :)
 
Nessmuk you are right I abused the compass and it was doing exactly what it was supposed to,if I had checked in the parking lot I would have realized the error of my ways.The way I messed it up was I had a group of kids make compasses with a magnatized needle poked through a strofoam noodle on a cup of water.Then I showed them how all their little compasses lined up with mine.When I was done I threw everything in my pack including the magnet I had used to magnatize the needles.Anyways the point is to always be aware and thinking so all the clues line up and the bad info will show itself.being aware of all the navigational clues is more inportant than any one component.ie in a white out the compass plays a stronger roll or when faced with cliffs the lay of the land dictates the progress.
 
Nate's question is reasonable, espescially since those with extensive bushwacking experience range from using gps to just following the gut, or even a star.

I only have experience in the White Mountains, but here are my thoughts. I don't have gps, but I always have two compasses and two watches. The compass is only used on a day when cloud cover is too thick to know where the sun is. Otherwise, I only use my watch and the sun. I've been a lover of the sky, day and night, since childhood, so it's automatic for me where the cardinal points are as long as I know what time it is and I can see the sun or the constellations. Also, as mentioned, I like to follow distinctive landmarks, such as cliffs. This is one of the reasons I find early winter to be the easiest time for bushwacking, when the leaves are fallen. I enjoy getting deep into the forest alone and feeling scared and humbled. It's sort of dissappointing when I emerge onto a trail or road. There are very few places in the White Mountains where you can manage to get more than a few miles from the nearest road or trail. Here's the best way to get in big trouble: if you are wrong about where you think "out" is, you could travel forever by parralleling a trail instead of moving toward it. Therefore, I believe the most important thing is not to know where you are exactly, but to know where "out" is. You can be wrong, to an extent, about where you are. You'll just have to travel a different distance than you expected. But you must be correct about the direction!!! Avoid second-guessing your direction just because you think you should have emerged in a certain amount of time!!!

Trails are not straight lines! Does that north-south oriented trail you seek have a section that bends to an east-west orientation for a quarter mile stretch? You may be parralleling instead of moving toward it. Be patient.

Don't panic!!! Enjoy the moment, it's better than being at work! :)

Off-trail travel is very slow; you probably have not travelled as far as you think you have. That's why it took longer than you thought to find the trail.

So, to answer the question, very comfortable. I bushwack without instruments for enjoyment, just to be "in there". :)
 
forestnome said:
Don't panic!!! Enjoy the moment, it's better than being at work! :)
Off-trail travel is very slow; you probably have not travelled as far as you think you have. That's why it took longer than you thought to find the trail.
forestnome, I share your love of the sky, and have been an observer since I was no older than 10. As a scientist I follow it whenever I can, I just wish I could use it more outdoors in this cloudy northeast!

When I began learning the art of solo long distance bushwhacking quite a few years ago, I wasn't able to keep track of my location as well as I can now by observing the lay of land and other clues. But I would hop from one obvious location to the next, usually some kind of pond, or distinctive portion of a stream or ridge or ravine. In between those distinctive and position confidence building places I would dead reckon using my compass, satisfied that if I went too far then something in the terrain ahead would definitively tell me so (this is called a "backstop"). I always laid out my trips and map study with that in mind.

Here's the wonderful thing... During those intermediate legs when I was alone without precise knowledge of place, life was different, a kind of twilight zone of not knowing precisely where I was, but knowing I would soon come to a recognizable place. I learned patience, pace, and timing from that exercise. The whole process was an immensely satisfying thing for me to do.

These days experience has taught me better dead reckoning and observational techniques to fill in the holes. I don't much get the between navigation fix spine chilling anticipation anymore, but I sure do still enjoy and marvel that this kind of navigation sure does work to get me anywhere I want to go. I learn something and have new experiences every time I go out. Every time so far anyway. :cool:

Yes, such travel can be slow but you can develop an internal measure of speed made by experience. One of the most important things to recognize is this - plan ahead, what terrain changes do I expect to see coming up next, and when will I be there... if you think you have "arrived" at an intermediate checkpoint unexpectedly too soon, then most likely you are wrong. For example, you probably are crossing an unmarked minor stream prior to the one you see on the map. Look more closely at the map, slight squiggles in the contours will reveal its presence and your real location.

You are much more likely to be late than early, but either way you should know the reason and know it well. Allow for dynamic changes on the fly and be reasonable about them. Most importantly, do not compound one mistake with another by "bending the map" to justify in your mind what is in fact not true. If that stream crossing was a critical turning point, then the terrain you pass through next had darn well better make perfect sense. If not then stop, go back and figure it out before continuing. Once you have made 2 or more compounded mistakes that you cannot resolve, then your chances of panic increase exponentially.
 
Umsaskis said:
I once navigated by a single star with my sister when we were following some old trails mixed with some bushwhacking and ran out of daylight on top of Tunk Mountain without headlamps (but what a beautiful sunset it was!), so we picked a bright star directly over a mountain that we knew was across the road, and kept that star in front of us until we hit the road.

I'm glad this story had a happy ending, and I do not have all the details, but I just want to add a cautionary note.

Unless it was Polaris (which essentially does not move in the sky), you were navigating by a moving object, whose position can change by up to 15 degrees per hour.

Unless you have a good knowledge of how stars move in the sky, or you are just a short distance away from your goal, I would not rely on this method.
 
Tom Rankin said:
I'm glad this story had a happy ending, and I do not have all the details, but I just want to add a cautionary note.

Unless it was Polaris (which essentially does not move in the sky), you were navigating by a moving object, whose position can change by up to 15 degrees per hour.

Unless you have a good knowledge of how stars move in the sky, or you are just a short distance away from your goal, I would not rely on this method.
This sounds a little discouraging.
I prefer to look at it another way. Like any other navigation technique, using the stars is one more of the clues to put in your bag of tricks. It is not any more difficult than using a compass... both require understanding some very basic knowledge. I would not discourage anyone from using any natural means to add to their navigational skills. The sun moves in the same way across the sky, and I think most people understand when it is in the east and when it is in the west. That alone may be enough knowledge to correct a gross navigation error in progress. The same method works at night. Even if you can't recognize a particular star it can still help you to maintain a relatively straight course. Sure it moves on an arc of 15 degrees per hour, but that's not much and now that you know you can compensate for it, just like you do with the sun.

Polaris is relatively dim compared to many other stars, and especially if the sky is not totally clear it may be difficult to find for many people. But just a little knowledge about some of the brighter stars and planets can be of great help. Most people could probably identify the Big Dipper if they have ever had it pointed out to them. It is always somewhere in the north, rotating about stationary Polaris. Venus in particular has been that exceptionally bright "evening star" to the west much of this past autumn. Over the summer reddish Mars had been unusually bright, dimmer now, but still quite visible high in the same evening sky as yellowish Saturn. Always bright white Jupiter is in the morning sky now. It doesn't take much research to go to a newspaper or other resource to find a star almanac and find out what is visible and what direction to look. You don't really have to learn any constellations, but I think most people have heard of Orion for example and can quickly learn to recognize that familiar star pattern with its bright stars. Once you have seen Orion you will never forget its pattern. The same is true of the bright tight cluster of stars known as the Pleiades. Nearby Orion is Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, always on the southern side of the sky for us living in the north.

Enjoy your trip to the woods, prepare for it. Enjoy the sky while you are at it, pick up a little knowledge before you leave and apply it as you go. Don't be afraid to try out new techniques. I do agree with Tom on one point... never rely on just one method. But don't be afraid to always learn and try more. Even if you live in the city you can find at least one bright star or planet to learn about. Practice watching it, walk for a while with it, observe how it moves and how it keeps you going on course. Put that knowledge in your pocket for later.

An excellent online star locator resource is here.
Learn what an "Iridium flare" is and when to view one (almost every night) on this site. Once you see a satellite bright enough to cast a shadow you will be hooked to look for more.
For more hard core information, visit my friends at Sky and Telescope.

I encourage everyone to learn and use all navigational clues available.
 
Nessmuk said:
This sounds a little discouraging. ...

It sounds like we have a lot in common!

I just wanted to state that this method only works for a short time, unless you compensate.

Nessmuk said:
The sun moves in the same way across the sky, and I think most people understand when it is in the east and when it is in the west. That alone may be enough knowledge to correct a gross navigation error in progress. The same method works at night. Even if you can't recognize a particular star it can still help you to maintain a relatively straight course. Sure it moves on an arc of 15 degrees per hour, but that's not much and now that you know you can compensate for it, just like you do with the sun.

Not all stars move 15 degrees per hour, and not all stars move from east to west, but I assume you already knew that. The closer to Polaris, the slower they move, and if they are in the northern sky (as viewed from around here), they can be moving from west to east. Just another thing to take into account.
 
Tom Rankin said:
Not all stars move 15 degrees per hour, and not all stars move from east to west, but I assume you already knew that. The closer to Polaris, the slower they move, and if they are in the northern sky (as viewed from around here), they can be moving from west to east. Just another thing to take into account.
That's why I was careful to say they "move on an arc of 15 degrees per hour". That may not project as seen from the surface of the earth to be 15 degrees/hr, but if you measure the arcs they make on the sky, even Polaris moves in a tiny circle, on an arc at 15.04 degrees per hour. Of course anything circumpolar from your particular latitude spends half its time moving from west to east, as does everything else when it is below the horizon. The west setting sun uses the nighttime to sneak back over to the east before it gets caught by the morning in the wrong place. :D
 
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